Project Phoenix

[rasputin]

Yes No doubt a progress update would be cool! If he has not responded in over 2 years I doubt he will, but I have taken a few hiatus over the years as well so he very well may respond. I for one certainly hope so.

[HMC]

Hows the progress? 

[essjay]

 


A comedy of errors my dear bike, oh me oh my. engine is in parts again. It turns out the original camchain that was still in there, not up to the job after all this time. Snap. CLunk. Bang. Few bent valves, no huge dramas, just mighty inconvenient. Keeping up with taking a photo every now and then, *sigh* will post up the saga in a new one when all said and done. An update on the head gasket though, sealing beautifully still, after several heat cycles and being removed and reinstalled twice. Now to TRY to work out what i will do for valves and get her alive again... would be nice if she ran long enough for me to mock up the spare turbo i have here and the barrels i had made... neither any use when the top end fails. Everything on my workbench now, valves out, going to try to find a valve that will fit (need 2 exhaust valves, all others ok) and if i can match some up im in business... anyone out there have spares they want to sell?!?!

Still, was great riding while she was, every time i roll out of my driveway and ease into the throttle the rear wheel would just spin up and slide out a bit, what a hoot.

In the meantime while i am parts hunting yet again, i took a hacksaw to the frame, got creative with the headlight guages and indicators and doing some minor rewiring. For those who saw the original condition of this beast... well, not the bargain i thought it was at the time, it would have been quicker and cheaper for me to start with a box of bits! Have too much energy and time and love invested in this thing now to give up on her, she will get there. Without tempting fate too much, after the top is sorted, not too much to go wrong, have spare crankcase and gears etc... lol lets wait and see. Just an update, basicly riding briefly, long time not riding, riding briefly again, now not riding again lol

[essjay]

Thanks for the replies guys! Yep, aware of the extra compression (bonus!) with the thinner gasket, layering 2 of them fixes that, but for now i am just getting hold of a smaller carbide bit to slot the cam sprockets out, though the difference in timing is not going to cause any big issues for a road bike, i just like the tinkering. As far as valves hitting pistons, miles off (ok, millimetres) lots of clearance there. And a good spray with Hylomar or a similar gasket sealant suitable for heads stops the oil weepage issues. Metallic silver paint works for the oldschool fellas out there too.
Good advice with the gasket goo, i will order some in today and give it a shot, thanks! some of those cases are a bugger of a shape to make gaskets for!

For putting nice cuts in the aluminium, i use the wife's good sharp kitchen scissors for the most part, metal snips for some tricky spots, and for the the bolt holes i use some normal hollow punches on a wooden board. The holes for the cylinders were a tad different. I loosely bolt and clamp the gasket to the spare set of jugs i have on my bench, the take a VERY sharp non-serrated knife and cut in a smooth sawing motion around the edge keeping the knife against the inside of the bore. Works beautifully, just need to make sure the gasket cannot move while doing so. If the jugs were still on the bike, i would still use this method, only with a rag in the cylinder just in case, though with this method there are no shavings at all to worry about.
In the past i have also cut them out with scissors, and also use a very sharp scribe in a normal circle drawing compass, just scribe over the same line over and over and over til it cuts through. Slow but effective.
Many ways to skin a cat, someone out there probably has access to a nice cnc, water jet or laser cutter and could pump these out in any thickness or material desired. Unfortunately i do not, i just send the wife shopping and use the kitchen scissors, carving knife, knife sharpener and the oven at the end to anneal them. Works for me

[steptoe]

it's called "Loctite Master Gasket",, designed for machined metal to metal faces with discrepancy's/gaps of no bigger than 1.5mm,, also any excess squeezed into the motor is absorbed by the oil,, it doesn't dry and break off like silastic and get stuck in oil galleries,, have used it for years, works great

great news for the "Phoenix",, finally back in the air,, ,,what did you use to cut such a fine line in aluminium,, obviously wasn't a jigsaw

as for the angst for angst sake,, I think there is none, AND DOESN'T BELONG HERE cause we know we're not rocket scientists, just fella's having a go, and will listen to any one with a solution or idea,           IMHO                            it's pretty simple, like you say, don't like it, don't try it                                           

[pgnz]

You'll have  more compression with the 0.5mm head gasket too,  stock ones are 1mm thick,  some academics would tell you that copper or aluminum head gaskets will always weep some oil no matter what, and you'll need to slot the cam sprockets and dial out that 0.5mm of slack from the cam timing,  also they'll tell you that the valves will likely now hit the pistons when it all gets hot enough and you'll blow the engine to pieces.. For the case gaskets I found that the red silicon gasket stuff in a tube works good with zero leaks for the clutch cover and cam cover on mine, including around the rubber half-moon thingy

[essjay]

Mwahahahaha Its Alive, Its ALIVE!!!
way later than i was hoping for, but tracked down some circlips, made some gaskets, bolted her together and she is alive and running well, woohooo! Few issues to sort out, mostly electrical. And a few oil leaks that are quite concerning, such as the cam plug seal and clutch cover (which i did not make the gasket for, that one was factory)
I will get y photos together and post the journey in a new post soon.
For those interested, the head gasket is 0.5mm thick aluminium sheet bought from bunnings, $13 is enough to make 4 gaskets but smallest sheet they had. Make a cardboard gasket, transfer to aluminium, cut out, bake in the oven for an hour at 250 while the wife is out shopping and assemble while warm. Has never failed me yet. And when you take it apart you can re-do the oven step and use the same gasket again. I am sure this will open me to a string of folks saying that just wont do, but i have used this method running up to 14:1 compression without a hitch, on cars bikes and boats. It works for me, if you don't like it, don't try it. If you do, hey, stick one on your lawnmower if you aren't sure!

Sorry that probably was not necessary, there never seems to be any flaming on this forum, everyone is pals. Just so used to other forums on the net.

Most of the other gaskets were made with oil jointing paper (proper gasket paper from the auto shop) or made from kids project paper, 74cents from the newsagent for a sheet big enough to do the whole engine. I bought two sheets, now i have a spare gasket set, or templates.
There are printable gasket templates on the UK forums by the way, if you prefer to cut out a paper template, put it on gasket paper, then cut that out. I just put the paper on the part wanting a gasket and tap one out with my gasket making hammer.

All in the other post when i get to it, don't hold your breaths, but it will be coming soon to a computer screen near you. Cheers all for the tips, fountain of knowledge in here. Now she is running I will start on the 1288cc big bore kit, got given some pistons that will do the trick. More on that soon too, will probably need some input with that project too.

[essjay]

Its not the putting them in im concerned about, its getting them off the old ones! hmm my dollar store pliers and screwdrivers, my smallest allen keys and a paperclip have thus far not worked. Nicely jammed in there. Will bring some real tools home from work tonight, im sure i could do it with these, but there was other tinkering to be done, so i let that slide (limited the cursing a bit too lol) expecting the barrels on in the next night or 2, with a healthy serving of luck, will be running this weekend coming.

[petejw1966]

i use needle nose pliers to put those
clips on and off the pistons, but as steptoe states
make sure it seats properly.
glad your getting it sorted.

[Christian Raith]

This looks to be a serious reconstruction
Maybe a chat with Mal Pitman (Malpit in South Aus (ex Pitman's Yamaha) or try PMing MadBill (xs1100madbill) in Germany for some expert ideas and of course Miti.

These blokes have a wealth of knowledge about the XS1100's workings

Could be worth some research before diving in...

[steptoe]

pressing in with small screwdrivers is all I use,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and wait for a nice click when they're home

[essjay]

Well i am sure im not the first to think of doing that, nor will i be the last. It got her in there, and gets me one step closer to riding again. Now, my kingdom for some circlip pliers! pistons need to go onto the rods, but no good putting anything more than that on without getting the darn circlips back in place.
Very close to cutting up wifes chopping board and making myself some buttons instead of or as well as the clips.

Or i will play chopsticks with two small flat blade screwdrivers. More cursing involved, sorry neighbors, but it works. And while i appreciate the manuals suggestion to tighten a large hose clamp to compress the rings, while i am on a roll swearing, i will most likely just compress them by hand like i usually do, one at a time. Or borrow the handy dandy motorbike ring compressor from a friend, if i did this on any kind of regular basis i would invest the $40 and buy a set. Getting closer folks anyway, engine prettied up in new paint, gauges and some trim items in new black paint. Tank primered and getting some silver shot on when the weather is agreeable. And the chopping board is in danger, i would only need a few bits... hmm wife is out shopping....

[steptoe]

I admire your ingenuity,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, but WA isn't that big that you don't live next door{ within 1000 klm }    to some one who could help do you 

[essjay]

hehe that would have helped, except the filter housing bolt in the new/used motor is rounded off entirely, so i didnt manage to get that off prior to fitting the engine. Oil pickup and pump wouldnt give me that much extra with that sucker still on the front. I managed to get her in with some ratchet strap action, planks of wood and brute force. I used an old trick, tipped the engine on its side and propped it up on wooder boards. then i tipped the frame sideways over the engine and maneuvered the frame and engine until the frame was laying over the engine - not as easy as it sounds with just one person. Then i ran two ratchet straps, one to the frame, arund the front of the motor and then back to the frame, tightened it up til it had some tension on it. Repeat that last step for the back section.
Then i swore a lot and pulled the whole thing back onto its front tyre and centre stand. (rear is still off)
So i wound up with the engine hanging from two ratchet straps high up in the frame. Lowered them bit by bit, allowed me to slip the engine mounts and bolts into place without too much more loud swearing, which im sure the neighbours are sick of by now

Engine is in. (frame barely got a scratch on it, phew) After a good thorough degreasing parts can start to go back on, bringing the head and jugs home from work tonight, not too long to go now before i can ride again 

[steptoe]

a thing I do when pulling and putting back in is take or leave the sump and oil pump off,,, will give you much needed room,,

 a small floor jack comes in handy too