Author Topic: electronic ignition  (Read 10201 times)

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Offline steptoe

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Re: electronic ignition
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2010, 11:35:36 AM »
just sitting here watching this unfold,,

for my bike having the vac adv piped to sync port makes vac unit bounce uncontrollably,

with it on the carb nipple, all's sweet,     it does have everything std.

on mine with out the vac adv hooked up no real diff, idle or power on, unless hard under it, then all it does is pre-ignites slightly, ran for many yrs with torn diaphragm

when mine does pack it in I'll be going with the electonik sasche, unbolt mine,  a tiny bit of ginning round wiring the new one in                     

Offline pgnz

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Re: electronic ignition
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2010, 10:18:03 AM »
OK so the boyer sachse etc.. ignitions don't run any manifold or throttle position sensors,  therefore you'd assume that with those units the bikes' timing curve will run exactly as it would with the vac-unit disconnected where the timing curve is controlled by the centrifugal unit(engine revs) only?   I'd say they'd have a quicker response or beefier spark though

   PS just looked at a vid on the .com site, basically shows me what I''ve been telling everyone forever, that is the vac unit runs exactly the same when connected at a sync port or the carb port.   Only difference at shut throttle on over-run the carb port switches off with the stock connection.  I can tell them that out on the road full advance at shut throttle over-run will have their bikes running great. . Shutting off the advance must be just another nuisance emmissions restriction

  The guys there also claiming that at idle on a sync port the timing advances. At normal idle, as in sitting stationary that's true, by 5 degrees, but doesn't the stock carb hose connection do the same when connected at those low revs?  I can't tell as I haven't got the stock carbs on my bike. 

I'd say the few degrees advanced at idle would be a desirable thing,  notice the boyer etc.. ignitions claim to advance the idle for a better low rev response.  Once the revs creep up, and the air gets flowing, the vac unit begins operating off the manifold vacuum as normal, checked with a timing light it's plain to see.  On mine, removing the vacuum at idle drops the idle speed by around a hundred or so revs.  The 5 deg advance actually gives a smoother and stronger idle.


QUOTE:


"Stick a restrictor like an old idle jet in the vacuum advance line and run the advance line off the manifold boot.."

 "It works but it works backwards at some critical times"    BOLLOCKS

" there is ignition advance at idle"  TRUE,  5 DEG BY TIMING LIGHT,  BUT MEANINGLESS AND LIKELY AN IMPROVEMENT OVER STOCK


 "full advance on overrun"    A GOOD THING IF YOU HAVEN'T BEEN SUCKERED BY GREENIES AND THE GREAT GLOBAL WARMING CON   8)

 "no advance at part-throttle lean"  BOLLOCKS,  NO DIFFERENCE



  It's all nowhere near as complicated as they're making out,  the vac unit runs off the manifold vacuum,  that's all there is to it. Simple Simple. The hose connection at the carb is only there to make the butterfly shut down the vacuum supply when closed.  If the  carbs are roughly set at a high idle or unbalanced, it won't even apply anyway, because the notch on the butterfly gives vacuum back with the very slightest of throttle movement.   The vac inlet always sits on the manifold side and everything's still all running from the same bloody vacuum,  there's no other magical vacuum coming in from some other mysterious source.    heheh   8)

Offline petejw1966

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Re: electronic ignition
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2010, 06:06:50 PM »
it use a tps which the zrx carbs have fitted
and it pick ups engine vacuum from the manifold,
the temp guage prevents the vac inducer from working until
it reaches 60 degrees.
theres another solenoid that attaches to the carbs to turn
the vac inducer on or off as it moves against or away from the idle stop.

looking on ebay these parts are pretty cheap and common in the states,
and things like the solenoid temp guage  could be picked up at a wreckers,
just thinking out loud  lol 
Peter
suzuki 2008 hayabusa gen2


former owner
1981 XS1100RH

Offline pgnz

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Re: electronic ignition
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2010, 05:56:45 PM »
Yeah I'd have thought those digital ignitions would need a throttle position sensor function to match any timing changes from engine vacuum?    IF they're varying their timing curve for any other influences other than engine revs,  then surely they'd need sensors plugged to the carbs or manifold to do it?  Or are they just simply doing what the ancient old centrifugal contraption does anyway with a curve based entirely on engine revs?        Yikes just checked the Sachse ignition,    354 euros shipped = 649 NZD,  errr  might be sticking with my old flea-bitten spinning weights for the time being   8) 

Offline petejw1966

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Re: electronic ignition
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2010, 04:41:50 PM »
i think that system looks similar to the boyer
system, there really nice but the thing about them
is that they have a pre programmed advance curve
built into the cdi, and i dont know if thats good or bad,

the system below uses a cpl of sensors on the engine
to map its own adv curve.

heres a little bit of info i found on the computer,

the computer performs 2 functions,
1,it determines the degrees of ignition advance that are required for any particular operating condition of the engine,
2,acts to break the primary ignition circuit so that the coil can provide a spark.
these functions are known as the program schedule function and the ignition control function.

"the program schedule function uses a number of senses on different parts of the engine to feed information to the computer.  the info is then processed and sometimes stored into the computor and used to determine the most desirable timing for the ignition system at any instant.  unlike a conventional ignition system which depends on vac and centrifigul advance mechanisms, advance curves canot be drawn for the computorise ign system because the advance is determined by the previous mentioned sensors. "

sorry its drawn out but explains how it works.







Peter
suzuki 2008 hayabusa gen2


former owner
1981 XS1100RH

Offline AussiXS11G

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Re: electronic ignition
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2010, 04:08:53 PM »
this is the one I will use .....
go to MODEL SELECTION then......

http://www.elektronik-sachse.de/ZDG3/frset_zdg_en.htm
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Offline petejw1966

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electronic ignition
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2010, 08:48:46 PM »
not to hyjack steptoes carby thread anymore,
 id thoughtid start a new one,
after doing some more reading
(yeah i know its a worry) of my old text book
i came across
Electronic lean burn ignition system
this consists of a
spark control computor and 5 sensors
a pick up
TPS (which the zrx carbs have)
vacuum tranducer (fitted to the spark control system)
Carb switch (on/off solenoid)
and a coolant temp switch

so i do a search on ebay and i find this


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NOS-1979-360-ELECTRONIC-SPARK-CONTROL-SYSTEM-DODGE-79-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5ad90e0175QQitemZ390188630389QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories



its the exact same one thats in the text book.

so what im not sure about, is that this thing is off a v8 with a heap morehp
would this matter, or the fact that it would be get its readings from the
engines sensors that this would create its own timing curve?

the idea of the above ignition is to have the carbys run leaner
and that those leaner mixtures are properly ignited and burned.


any thoughts or theorys? 


Peter
suzuki 2008 hayabusa gen2


former owner
1981 XS1100RH