electrical help needed

[Jonesy :-)]

hoping to do the rec/reg and take the stator off the alternator this arvo and will report back.

EDIT
some time later, checked the stator, and to my eye there is nothing obviously wrong, but the rotor has some gouges in it which I assume is old as there's no corresponding rub marks on the stator, (probly been replaced)
Also changed out the rec/reg and will fire up tomorrow to see what happens

[excess.11]

Members have reported a residual magnetism when assembling and disassembling the stator onto their bikes...it is for this reason I m apprehensive about connecting a tester in continuity mode whilst hand turning the motor as a voltage may be produced.
 I did refer jonesy to contact you and see what your issue was and how you corrected it . The rotor does come within a millimetre or two of the stator and is certainly worth checking for contact with the stator .....the easiest way would be to remove the unit and check for obvious scuff marks internally on the rotor and stator . Marks on the external case may also give a clue to investigate further if the bike has gone down on that side or by simply falling over on that side.
With respect to input by all others the only way to sign off on the integrity of the windings is to check with a meg ohm meter ....you would be amazed at what weaknesses can show on this test compared to a resistance or continuity test.
Method of elimination on an intermittent fault is the easiest way to isolate a fault...sooooooo once Jonesy changes over the reg/rectifier unit we can eliminate that if the fault persists in that component .
Jonesy??
Having said that......with the rally only days away till you leave .......I strongly advise to change both units hoping therein lies the fault and you can go through the process of elimination when you return.

[Christian Raith]

You did not understand what I was talking to him about, it is something that happened to me.
The alternator insulation can scuff to frame not talking about any power just continuity and slowly turning the crank by hand with everything unplugged.
There is no power involved in the test just to see if the windings are away from earth and continuity to the plugs from the alternator coils.
I'm a level one senior electronics tech too.  :-)

Definitely don't travel with the bike like that

[excess.11]

Jonesy.........never heard of that type of test you carried out regarding using a continuity test whilst turning the motor by hand. It s a good way to ruin a perfectly good tester by passing a voltage through it in that mode. It certainly isn t the way to test insulation resistance .A fault that occurs with insulation on the windings to cause incorrect voltages can occur in a number of ways......if it s a fault to ground the windings will cook their insulation and you would see discoloration and probably detect a nasty electrical burning smell......
If it s a fault within the windings them selves with the insulation breaking down this will cause a lower than normal resistance or if they open circuit a higher resistance.
I m assuming you ve carried out the tests as per book on the components mentioned below and these tests have shown close to accurate readings on what you should be getting
I reinterate.......if you don t have the necessary meter and advice to conduct the insulation test safely and properly follow the advice below .

Jonesy....my advice would be  NOT to travel to the rally with tools etc to carry out repairs .....but to "crack on" and use a process of elimination to identify the fault .
As the fault seems intermittent due to whatever triggers it.....I strongly suggest you change over the reg/rectifier unit first....then if the fault still shows....... the stator and field coil....... due to the previous problem you have already had with its wiring .....as these are an easy change over job from your spare bike if you don t already have spare units lying around.

[Jonesy :-)]

After talking to one of my electrical advisors, I put my meter in beep/continuity mode, and one by one tested each wire in the 4 pin plug (with the white wires) from the alternator by putting one probe to the wire and the other probe to an earth on the frame, then turned the motor over by hand for a couple of revolutions each time no beeping was heard so that means the insulation in the rotor windings is ok ?
Now I will follow my other advisors advice and replace the rec/reg and run another test to see if I still get mad 18 volt readings with the motor running.
More advice welcomed

[excess.11]

Jonesy....my advice would be  NOT to travel to the rally with tools etc to carry out repairs .....but to "crack on" and use a process of elimination to identify the fault .
As the fault seems intermittent due to whatever triggers it.....I strongly suggest you change over the reg/rectifier unit first....then if the fault still shows....... the stator and field coil....... due to the previous problem you have already had with its wiring .....as these are an easy change over job from your spare bike if you don t already have spare units lying around.

[Jonesy :-)]

Hey Christian
I just went up to the shed and ran the bike with a meter on the battery and got some pretty high readings up to 18volts then back to 14.6 rock steady then off again up to 17 & 18 volts. there's that intermittent thing again
I'll change that rec/reg first then see what happens.
Might give you a call tomorrow to see how you fixed your problem

[Christian Raith]

Jonesy it is probably a few turns on the alternator crook.
I have had the same problem and fixed it
0280048570

[Jonesy :-)]

Hey Jeff sorry I didn't get back earlier, a few issues with the site I assume we're all aware of....anyway its been a while since I did the tests, so cant remember the exact numbers but at the time all seemed to go with what the book said. Reason I'm not convinced all is well are a couple of things, went to start bike after sitting a couple of months and flat as a maggot....9 volts, put the jump starter on it and very slow cranking, left jumper connected for about 60sec and had another go, cranked strong, even strong enough to compensate not putting taps on prime, ie long enough to fill the carbs and start without fading, Intermittent connection? wouldn't expect a battery as low as 9 volts to crank that strong, then I went for a 30km ride and on return I had 12.8 volts with motor stopped,........ and that tacho is still wacko with needle swinging mad from zero to full stop.
I'm going to carry a rec/reg, battery charger and a multi meter to Nymboida JIC.

[Christian Raith]

Here ar a few pictures of what happened to mine a while ago now and what I did as a quick fix .
Later when home I put some new connectors on, Get them from NARVA or Supercheap or Repco.
Easy fix but check that the yellow/white wires are not earthing, shorting to the frame.

http://s1106.photobucket.com/user/XS1100Aus/library/Electrical%20Connectors

[excess.11]

There s a few "no name" Megohm meters for sale on ebay for around  $55 . Although it is nt a device I would recommend using with out some instruction and or training as you are passing high voltages through components and wiring .
Getting back to the testing you did on the stator and field windings.......was it 4 ohms..........or .4 ohms on the reading you previously posted........you ve stated 4 ohms..........it should be the latter for the stator measurements .
Depending on how your wiring came to fuse together............ will depend on the state of the copper within the wiring loom.
Generally speaking........if the heat was from an external source..........ie contact with engine or touching hot exhaust on inspection it may be ok to repair/ reinstate the copper insulation. Heatshrink would be the way to go as insulation tape is affected by heat and can allow moisture in.
Had the heat been generated ........via a shorting out of the wiring between windings or to ground...........if it was me..........I would replace the unit and associated wiring  .
Coops problem has been resolved as a faulty battery in his tester......giving incorrect readings.
The faulty bike battery he experienced and has since replaced...... may have been just that....a faulty/old battery or one that was nt maintained with fluid levels.
The voltage at the new battery now falls within spec .
What are you experiencing........ that you are saying your not convinced your issues are fixed ?

[Jonesy :-)]

Hey Jeff
Digging up an old one here, in your last post you mentioned a megohm test. do you own one of these things and is it something you could easily take to Nymboida? I'm not convinced I've fixed this problem yet and I'd really like to give this thing a clean electrical bill of health.
Coops current problem (no pun intended) sounds similar and watching with interest

[Jonesy :-)]

Thanks Errol for the words of encouragement , I shall try the tacho swap and see how that goes. fingers crossed as I think Jeff's suggestion might lead to more work I'm not competent at
Jeff, if the tacho swap don't work I'll be on the blower.

[excess.11]

Jonesy...as we spoke about previously regarding....the melted connector/cables...to give that loom a clean bill of health....you have to carry out an insulation and resistance test using a megohm meter. The continuity test just won t cut it .
Passing a test voltage of 500vdc through the stator windings and loom is whats needed to sign off on hot/melted wiring.

[Eveready1100]

Paul, do you have a spare tacho you could swap over just to check it's not the unit itself playing up.
I had a milder case of tacho hiccups where the needle would work steadily from idle up to 2,000 rpm at which point , the needle would just constantly flicker between 2-4,000 until the engine revs reached 4,000 and the needle would stabilise and continue to climb steadily to maximum revs.
Was only an annoyance till the time that the speedo cable snapped and trying to be legal round town with a gyrating tach is a tad difficult.
Did my instrument swap a few months ago and the problem was instantly fixed, with a nice steady tacho needle, so it'd be worth a look.

Sounds to me that you've just about covered all the other bases.
You're doing well!