electrical help needed

[Miti]

Just FYI... I had a "eureka" moment regarding overcharging faults (also known as "a memory"...)

The Rec/Reg unit regulates the output voltage, using the unit's ground wire as a reference...

So, operating correctly, the unit will "see" 0 Volts on the ground wire and regulate the output at around 14 Volts above that...

BUT...

Occasionally, corrosion and bad, high-resistance, connections conspire together to produce a situation where a voltage develops between the battery ground terminal and the frame ground and/or rec/reg ground... In my experience, this can be as much as 3 Volts..

In this situation, the rec/reg manfuly tries to regulate the output, but it's working with a reference voltage of +3 Volts, so the actual output ends up somewhere near 17 Volts - NOT good!!

The cure for this is to ensure that ALL ground points are spotlessly clean.  I use wire-wool on the ring terminals and remove paint from around threads where earth points secure to the frame...  You can albeit put a stop to corrosion around these by smearing a spot of petroleum jelly around the connection (after its tightened).

Might not be the case here, but worth a look-see on any XS1100...

HTH

Miti

[Jonesy :-)]

will that give me real time voltage coming from the rec/reg like if it spikes up to 16volts, or just whats stored in the battery?

[excess.11]

Battery.

[Jonesy :-)]

So, I've addressed the obvious melted white wires problem in the loom, still waiting for new battery to arrive so I can fire it up.

What sort of issues could I expect if the brown, green, red or black wires that are also connected to the rec/reg were faulty?......you know, while I've still got the multi-metre, wire strippers and soldering iron warmed up.

Jeff, trust me, If I still get high volts when the time comes to fire up I'll get the known good rec/reg out of 581 

Thinking of putting on a volt meter so I can monitor while riding, any suggestions where best to make the connections? straight off the battery? or tap into the rec/reg?

[excess.11]

Mudsey......what a picture you paint.....
From here on... you shall be named.....Piccasso 
The cloth wires you describe are ..glass insulated hi temp wiring .
The tape over the other white wires going to the reg/rec unit concern me as they have been damaged enough to possibly have affected other wiring running side by side with them in the loom.
Remove all wiring that was used for the headlight relay and throw it to the shizenhausen .
The move to a new battery especially the "Motobatt"...makes my heart jump for joy.
We seem to be moving in a direction with what you ve mentioned.........not saying which one just yet  ...until we can get you to pry that known good working reg/rec unit offa your spare runner to eliminate that as a fault.

[Jonesy :-)]

Ok, let me paint a picture. 4 braided/cloth type wires from the alternator externally appear Ok but the loom side of the 4 pin plug had melted blistered insulation with copper wire(s) exposed, the photo I posted a few replies back has white insulation wrapped around the wires in a dodgy attempt to fix.
hmm. only 30 or so words.......still a blurry picture ay
I've laid all the new wires and terminated the 4 pin plug end at right side cover, just cant bring myself to cut the wire in the headlight....but I will today.
Also have a new "autobatt" or "motobatt" battery (the yellow one) on order

oh yeah, I also ran another wire for the after market relay that hard wires the headlight, dunno if it has any other hidden purpose?........do you think I should re-connect it?

[excess.11]

Just the condition of the insulation as it enters the loom Jonesy...errrr Mudsey oops ..well who ever you are this week...
A picture is worth a thousand words ...

[Jonesy :-)]

Jeff, couldn't really get a better picture with my 1 Mpix phone camera, was there anything particular you wanted to see?

[Jonesy :-)]

Jeff, the white wire to relay has been disconnected since just after after I bought the bike, thinking back, the battery was tired when I bought the bike too so I reckon this overcharging cooking batteries plagued the PO too. will get a closer photo when I get home

[excess.11]

Can you show a better close up pic of the 3 white wires leading into the loom. Also...I thought you had already disco nected and removed that headlight relay. Was it still connected and in play ?

[Jonesy :-)]

Well, after the fail to launch to Nymboida, due to a flat battery (11Volts), probly boiled from regular doses of 18 volts the triple bypass has begun, the melted wires are an in ya face problem that I'm going to rectify first.
Managed to remove the male spade connectors from the OEM block that connects harness to rec/reg so I can still use it to re-connect an try to keep the job neat

this after market relay has had me puzzled since I got the bike, all it seems to do is hard wire the headlight on all the time. the white wire to it which also comes from the melted alternator 4 pin plug at the back of the fuse box was also melted at the relay end and when disconnected from the relay allows the headlight to be switched on and off like normal.......? WTF

and the 3 wires that are going to be bypassed

I'm hoping for a smooth tacho (replacing the wire to the headlight shell as well) and well behaved charging system after this, fingers X'd

[hen]

Great news
I hope That's it all gone 

[Jonesy :-)]

Ta dah presenting the magical mystical self repairing bike........
went through all the tests again with the original rec/reg installed and got the right results on all points and never exceeded 14.5v
turned the bike off went to walk away spun around quickly and yelled BOO at it then did the tests again....faultless,
oh let me tell you how much I love these bikes, and auto electrickery even more so, ahh! frustration with a capitol XS.
she's all back together  again now, ready for Nymboida 

[hen]

I would like to add a couple of things (only saw this last night)
1 the picture of the faulty wiring and plug. A bad connection causes heat which could have caused the melt.  Make sure you check all connectors for bad connections with your ohm meter including the earths.. After this get it going watch the volt meter and do a wiggle test that is touch and squeeze  all the connectors and wiring you can find?? double check that wire that feeds the reg with the control current because as discussed the reg is usually faulty when there is overcharging problems . unless you have bad wiring or connections remember heat causes resistance which reduces current flow.

2 Yes trouble with second hand parts it could be faulty? so put that spare reg on the fault free bike and see what happens? it can't blow anything up.
if you  follow all the test by the book and there OK double check them and then it has to be the wiring.. I guess we would all like to be there to help

[excess.11]

The first check you did is correct .....you should get continuity between windings . The second test to the alternator connector attached to the main wiring harness is fruitless as the wiring is connected in cct with other components. Also........ you are checking continuity...NOT insulation resistance which is a test that must be carried out when there has been a risk of damage to the wiring.
There are a number of other items that enter the wiring loom at that point where the alternator connects into.........it s for this reason we need to visually check to see there are no other cables that have been affected by the overheating or shorting.
Follow my instructions in my last 2 posts.