is it the cam chain?

[pgnz]

So what I got out of that was:

There's 5/8 of F#%* all difference between a old and new cam chain.

hi i just changed the camchain, im from the u.s. 
went by the manual but probably missed something.
went for a ride, engine extremely rattly, 
engine grenaded out on street... will use
an auto-tensioner next time, that should fix it

[Jonesy :-)]

Ok the jobs been completed with the help of Mrs Jonesy :-) holding the anvil while i peened the joining link rivets and a bit of mucking around getting the dots and T mark all lined up.
I feel a bit ripped off after checking tensioner stroke/travel after new chain went in.
at max compression of the adjustor spring the tensioner is only 30mm long, new chain installed its 39.5mm, old chain 44mm and max extension is 45mm. Pic below shows 39.5 after new chain went in.


Steptoe, I did the bend test for you and not a great deal of difference between old and new. New = 180mm Old = 190mm. I suppose someone  will jump in and tell me thats gigantic after I said 3.5mm wasnt much


One thing I got out of the bend test is it quickly revealed how shoddy a job the last cam chain installer did on the joining link.
pic below shows the side plate only held by one rivet

[XSIIE]

Hey PG,

So what I got out of that was:

There's 5/8 of F#%* all difference between a old and new cam chain.

The original cam chain tensioner designed for the bike is fine, however mods are available for those who want to "tinker" and change the original. (why would you tamper with perfection)
 
If anything goes wrong with the engine America is to blame

Somewhere in your past an American stole your bike and shot your favourite dog or shat in your swimming pool

Got it.

Eddy

[pgnz]

  loop the chains there'll be fifty six sixths of ten fourths of f.a.      difference in diameter, i just measured doubled length [half length] of old used one and new one, my case only about a mm different,

also lots of bollocks and horseshlt on the yank xs11 site
about the xs tensioner being 'faulty'..  the "official requirement" is that you "must" install a fully automastic tensioner, apparently they're way way "better" ...

 apparently the lock-bolt will "fail" and the tensioner will slip and the engine will grenade(effing horseshlt, there's only a few mm's adjustment anyway)

 any "grenading" engine is guaranteed to be caused by moron/retard style brainlessness.  Apparently pretty common in the u.s.   

[steptoe]

3.5 mm might not sound much, but it'd have to be a good half tooth, how much diff on the bend test, worn to brand new.
have never done it myself is why I'm asking

[Jonesy :-)]

Percentage wise its only 0 .35% (3.5mm) the point i'm making its not much from new to worn. The difference between pin centers is 0.35% 

[steptoe]

Gotta agree with Jeff, that's a huge difference mate, what's the diff between pin centre's

[excess.11]

Hey Jonesy....i d have to disagree that the wear isn t that much between the 2 cam chains.
Thats a hell of a lot when you consider the extra length is obtained from the accumilation of wear and tear ....on and at ....each pivot pin.
Whilst we see wear on the chain as obvious....has any one considered the wear of thousands and thousands of kms the chain has on the camshaft and crankshaft sprockets compared to oem specs ?
If the bearing surfaces of the crank and camshaft wear down ....surely these sprockets must do the same and cumitivly have some affect on adjustment....but more importantly the timing and running order of the engine.
. Just throwing the cat amongst the pigeons here for a point of view.

[Jonesy :-)]

put a new cam chain in 581 yesterday, and got the chance to compare difference in length between old and new chains.
The new chain I put in was the one I opted not to use during the "winter rebuild" because it appeared to measure up as being too long. A couple of weeks ago I bought another chain the same as pgnz's photo above and compared it to the "suss" one, and they were both exactly the same, 995mm (the mark on the bench)
So, as you can see over the total length there aint much difference.
I still have to peen the joining link and set it up properly to get a comparison of adjustment stroke on the tensioner.

[Jonesy :-)]

Hey Ev
Yeah, moves nice n easy, I re-assembled with the tensioner fully extended and unlocked, removed all the plugs and gave it a couple of turns by hand to make sure there were no tooth jumping valve bending capers going on while apart plus gave the tensioner a birthday with  a new button seal.

[Eveready1100]

That's plenty, mate.
But, while you had it out, did you undo the lockbolt to check that it moves properly when released?

[Jonesy :-)]

Set the timing wheel on C and pulled the adjustor out to find 1mm left

[pgnz]

 glistening shiny brand spanking new chains... 128 links on camchain

[steptoe]

cam chain is typically a tinny  high speed rattle,
you did take the wieght off the chain before you undid the adjust screw hey  ,
about the only real way to know if it,s on it,s limits, you,ll have to take the top cover off and line all your marks up,

or turn to TDC and pull the tensioner out and see if the shaft will come out any further, I have had a tensioner with a dry shaft that hung up and wouldn,t slide,,,,,,,,, once

[Jonesy :-)]

What's the tell tale sign for you blokes that the cam chain has had its day and is due for replacement? Mines developed a rythmic "chainy" type noise that didnt go away after adjustment. And how do you tell if its out of adjustment?