Changing engine mounts

[petejw1966]

hi grant,
im in the process of doing all that,
have got new rings, new cam chain, honed cylinders
and in the process of getting the shims sorted for the head,
which has new valve guide seals and lapped valves.
just need to get my finger out now. 

[Aussiexs11]

Peter,
I think all the work has made a massive difference.
Its been worth it, new cam chain, new rings, hone, head freshened and new seals, new clutch plates, adjusted shims, balanced carbs and its really nice again, its as I recall it a few years ago. All good for a while now I hope.
Ive always kept oils and greases up to it in all compartments and changed them regularly and as a result its good.
I will totally dismantle carbys though soon and rebalance etc. I have a spare set now and I can aford the luxury of replacing some bits if needed. With the link to the replacement diaphragms that Xtian set up I think I will get a set of those to really tidy things up. The present set (about 10yrs old) were put back in after I rebuilt them with rubber compund to seal a few issues and they have been great all that time but.... you know how things go, now I can get new ones, its time to do something about it.
Theres no doubt about it, they are such a great old bike, Im loving it all over again. may not be superbike quick, but hey Im not putting this one on the track so thats fine!

[petejw1966]

good stuff getting it sorted,

i was wondering if  u noticed any performance gain with a new cam chain?
was thinking if the chain was worn it would thro the cam timing out a little.

[Aussiexs11]

ell,
Vibration problem solved. A few things done:
1, Balanced carbs- was a bit out on one carb out of the 4
2. Adjusted the new camchain
3. Put a bracket in to stop the centrestand touching the 4into1
The gave it new plugs, fresh oil and a hell of a caning and its sooooo much nicer, only vibrates like an XS can.
Thanks to all for advice and I hope I dont get this vibe back!!
Think its time to do the engine mounts though as a 33rd bithday present
Grant

[Stout]

Thanks Geoff, that course of action had occurred to me and I may yet do it, but I was thinking if I was going to stuff about with them, I'd just as soon put new ones in if they were readily available. Hence why I was wondering if they are easy to come by or like rocking horse poo...

It's a bit like the tired clutch - I could just put a couple of washers under each bolt to buy some more time, but if I'm going to remove the clutch cover, why not treat the old girl to a new clutch? I figure she's earned it...

[steptoe]

the front ones are easy to fix mate,,

undo the front mount brackets and remove,, just for ease of getting at the mount rubbers,

and spin the rubbers 180 degrees,  re-install and do every thing back up nice and tight,

see how much diff that makes

you,ll find the back ones won't do that because the steel of the mount is shaped for the engine

[Stout]

Not sure, mine is the only XS11 I've ever ridden. Vibration isn't anything I'd consider abnormal for a Jap I4 engine of the vintage (has the typical high frequency buzz) and hasn't changed in the years I've had the bike. But then, neither has the appearance of the rubbers - they have looked pretty tired as long as I've had the bike.

If anything, it is smoother than most similar bikes I've ridden and smoother still since I balanced the carbs recently, which shouldn't surprise anyone.

I have noticed that some days it feels a lot smoother than others and have put this down to different fuels.

[excess.11]

Stout.....do you have any noticable vibration at any rpm you would contribute the condition of the mounts to? .

[Stout]

New front engine mounts are on my to do list. They are visibly compressed / sagging.

Are they relatively inexpensive and easy to come by?

It occurred to me while sitting on the driveway gazing at them the other day that it would probably be fairly easy to source some rubber suspension bushes that would fit.

[petejw1966]

is the bike stock standard
as in jets etc,
around 5 - 6 grand is when the mains start kicking in, (depending on throttle position)
when the bike is under acceleration, the float levels come into play,
is the bike well tuned, how are the plugs looking.
i tend to go back to the carbs as ive been messing around with mine
(the keihins) depending on the set up i can get various vibrations
through out the bike usually when its  a rich mixture.

[steptoe]

just had makzy here this arv,, and his has developed a similiar vib,

will pay to check, is the muffler canister tight on the pipe or has it a little play,,are the header pipes tight in the engine pipes

 does the canister wholey and soley mount on the rubber bush in the rear footpeg arm or does it touch

after riding makzys',, might be more harmonics than mechanical

[Aussiexs11]

Very interesting info gents, and I thnank you all for your interest and input.
I can answer the questions Steptoe poses, its a process of elimination:
1. The vibe only occurs while riding and is in all gears at these revs.
2. Its under accelleration at higher revs as discussed
3. Not evident on stand with engine running
3. Checked an have a horn rattle but this is not the culprit
4. felt through pillion pegs as well as rider, its a vibe coming from low down not through bars etc.
5. havent taken hands off bars as Ive usually only felt this as I am winding it up accelerating up hill /through corners etc and I just cant get one hand safely off the bars!!
6. havent tried lifting with a trolley jack yet, but thats an idea.
7. I looked at the engine mounts and I noticed 1 is centred, the other appears to have worn a mm or 2 and the engine seems to lean to the frame on the RHS that 2 mm. BUT from the rear the engine mount still seems centered.
I will be taking it back to the shop who fitted the clutch (yes I was lazy and had a Yamaha dealer do it) and ask him to open it up and check for plate and spring issues. I know from my bevels and having replaced a few clutches that if things are a little out of line then many strange vibes /noises and performance can occur!! So im thinking that as it seems to be an "under load" issue it is in that area.
The final and middle drives sound fine and give no issue, ALSO noted its through all gears at this rev that this happens so to me that brings it back to clutch area.
I will keep you all advised after I have it checked out. I will have cam chain adjusted too and carbs resynched.

[Fred]

Grant,

all very valid points that should not be dismissed but to actually answer your question mate.

Yes, you can change them without pulling the heart out of the beast.

Just loosen all mounts first and then you can change them one at a time. Only nip them up until you have them all in and then tighten them up to the CORRECT TORQUE SETTINGS.

Putting in brand new parts is always very satisfying but if you aren't sure if that's the cause in the first place then I hope that you've got very deep pockets mate.

[excess.11]

It s a process of examination by elimination via tests or replacement of parts.I prefer to try and pinpoint the likely cause first before randomly purchasing and installing parts.You haven t told us a lot other than you get vibration at the rpm stated since a partial rebuild.
ie.....is the vibration only when your riding ?.........or......does it occur if the bike is on the side or centre stand and you take the revs up ?If it does it in a stationary position.........have you tried putting a trolley jack under the motor with a rag to insulate and not damage anything.Then put slight pressure upwards to lift it slightly off the mounts?This would help to determine if it is the mounts or not/drivetrain or not?. Is there a noise associated with the vibration?Have you used a stethoscope or screwdriver to your ear from the point of vibration?Where do you feel the vibration most?...Handlebars?.....Footpegs?.......Where? Try placing your hand on different parts of the bike  with  different pressures/directions while the vibration is there .The horn bracket is notorious for vibes on it s own as well as against the underside of the tank of the standard model.I could go on .......but you get the picture i m sure............theres so much more you can do, to help us help you, as you have the benefit of having the patient right there in front of you.Whether the vibe is there when reving the bike in neutral or in gear on the centrestand or underload or backing off when riding and pulling in the clutch should eliminate the clutch/drivetrain etc one way or the other.
I had a vibration at about the same revs...and whilst out riding i reached over and grabbed the front of the tank at the tunnel and lifted it up (vibe gone..)pressed down(vibe worse...).The fix was to slightly reshape the 2 front tank mount tabs that hold the rubbers, slightly downwards ,to give the underside of the tank the clearance needed from the horn bracket.And yes........they were new rubbers as well.Another well documented improvement to these bikes is...to sync the carbs , set mixture/timing /check the vacuum advance is working ok , and float levels ,adjust cam chain tensioner etc..this is critical to get these right.

[steptoe]

had the vib since doing the clutch,?

 who did the clutch??

first thing I'd be doing is pull the side cover off, lean the bike over on the left side,, that way the oil can stay in it,  check  the 6 finger cover is sitting neat,, sometimes 1 spring will get under the lip of the plate and not let it sit flat on the basket, and check that the big nut is right, by that, is it tight, and is the lock plate bent over the edges,


going one step further, flatten the tab plate and re-check the torque on the big nut,, 50 ft/pnd
making sure the cluch basket itself is all the way down on the shaft, and not sitting up a littlest bit

personally, that's where I'd be going, only because of the vib since the clutch was done, and wasn't there before