Somethings gone bang!

[BrettS]

Thanks for all the advice. Spent another full day on the bike again today. Most of that was spent trying to get the cam chain set. I seemed to be having ALOT of trouble keeping the tension on the chain and everytime I set it the crank would turn but not the cams. After several distressed calls to Jonesy I finally figured I could see down into the motor and saw that the chain was always of to the side of the crank cog. It seems this is a hazard of doing the job on a side stand, Jonesy did pick this and we had straightened the bike up at one stage but I later found it also took alot of chain jiggiling to actually get it back on the crank cog.
Then i started to get some where, still took me about 8 tries before I got the timing marks to line up just right. I swaped sprocket holes on the exhaust cam (180 deg) at one stage as Jonesy suggested. Don't think I would have got it without that advice. Buggers gunna cost me a fortune in beers 
Got it all back together and fired it up just on dark. Only firing on three cylinders and then got worse. I was sceptical but had seen similar when fuel was low so after a top up I got a flood of fuel through the air box. this always happens when I have run the carbies dry so then I got optomistic. Once I got it started after that it coffed and spluterd while it cleard the flood out then on que started to puurr. 
All seems great, I am hoping the valve lapping and also a little extra work on fixing leaks from manifold to airbox will have it running better than ever but will see when it hits the tarmac again.
No work booked in for this week so I might even get through the list of jobs to do before the rally.
New headlight and clean up the wiring after the new speado, Mal's brake brackets are hot of the press in the mail so I might have time to put the gold spots on and I also need a pack rack jacket and gloves  Maybe even take the paint of the fuel tank. All more fun jobs than that bloody head gasket 

[Jonesy]

Hey Brett you've got to do the timing with the crank/timing plate in the "T" position for Top dead centre.  The C position is for setting the chain tension. You can verify TDC on No:1 cylinder by poking a piece of wooden dowel or similar down the spark plug hole to feel the top of the piston and turning the crank back and forth either side of TDC  until your satisfied you have the piston right on top of the stroke. The idea is to get all the slack in the chain to the front where the tensioner is

EDIT
give us a call if you got any Q's

[Eveready1100]

Best advice I can give from here is take your time, mate, and do it exactly as per the good book.
With the cams tightened down, there is at least two valves in the open position (or nearly) and if the chain isn't engaged and the motor is rotated, it only takes a little piston / valve crown interaction to bend them. They are really soft in this regard, so use great care not to let the bottom end rotate without the cams doing so too.

If it helps to maybe brighten your day a bit, I was having a bit of a browse back through your epic thread "81 XS 1100 Start" and found this bit in your first post - "His cousin had the engine rebuilt spending much more than he should have apparently? Since then the bike has only done 500km I think he said"
Could have a bit of a bearing on why the head gasket let go in the first place if it hadn't been re-torqued since it was assembled, well, it wouldn't help at all.
Just a thought.

[pgnz]

 cam timing on a XS is a big hassle and hard to do,  you have to get the chain hooked to the sprocket on the crank and don't let it slip the whole time you're shagging with the top part,  unless it's a fluke you won't get it right the first time and the cam dots won't line up,  one measly mm out is too much, and then you have to go through the whole procedure again until you get it right.  If you've lined up the top sprockets and then the bloody chain slips on the crank by only a tooth then it's all out of whack before you know it 

[BrettS]

I finished the head work today, I mostly used your way of lapping the valves Errol as the suction cups would not stick well. I replaced all the valve stem seals (thanks a bunch Makzy) Except I stuffed the last one. Thought that was me done but I managed to find one I had removed that could be re-used, fingers crossed.
I have the head back on the cams back on and started to re-install the chain but don't seem to be getting it right.
I try to pull the chain tight from the inlet side, as per manual instructions, put the first bolt in the sprockets and then turn the timing mark around to C but the cam shafts don't move so I am thinking I have not engaged the chain in the crank properly Bit annoying as I don't know what I am doing and don't want to bend a valve or such.
I will have another go in the morning. Any advice?

[Jonesy]

No worries Brett,
I got to go for a 340kay hit out on 581 before bourke (and shes match fit) and do a good deed as well

[BrettS]

I had Jonesy drop in today with a head gasket valve compressor paste bearing blue and the valve lapping tools. Bloody Champion 
Just need the valve seals of you Makzy, I will send you a PM.
Sorry christian I did not give you that call.
Chin waged with Jonesy for a few hours around the bike and we decided we might as well lap all the valves.
Thanks for all the help everyone. 

[Jonesy]

Oh yeah,
and another thing that the boys on this forum corrected me on........when doing the fuel filling valve leak test, turn the head on its side and fill the ports on the other side of the valves, not the combustion chamber. That way you'll be able to see exactly where the leak is. and prevent un necessary pulling apart and lapping only the valve(s) that need it.

[Jonesy]

All good advice and I'd take Max up on his valve stem seal offer if you are going to lap the valve seats.
Another tip for removing and replacing valve collets.....
*A marking scriber and one of them magnets on a stick is good for getting the collets out.
*Pointy nose pliers with a generous dob of Vaseline on the collet will help when manoeuvring the collet back into position. *The Vaseline  (or grease) will hold the collet stuck to the stem when you let go of it from the pliers grip and need to settle it into its final position,  a marking scriber, fine flat blade screw driver or similar is ideal for poking and prodding the collet into place.
I like to be a bit organised when doing a job like this and have 8 separate containers to keep all the valve components, springs washers collets etc. together in there own sets.
If you let me know early enough this morning I can run you over a head gasket and valve compressor tool.

[makzy]

Hey Bretts if ya want some new valve stem seals i have some spare sets with your name on them.
Max.

[Eveready1100]

Nah, mate. While the head is off and the valves are obviously leaking, they have to be done because if left, the leaks will get worse and eventually burn out the valve, maybe taking the seat with it, which will be $$$$$$$$$$. Better to take a little time to do it properly.
Just another Q? Which cylinder was it that had the zero clearance when you checked them some time ago? Maybe contributed the to buildup of carbon on the valve seat.
Regarding whether the bottom end will grenade with the extra compression, I wouldn't think so, as your not putting in Hi comp pistons or a turbo and it's been running good with no bad noises from down there. It should be ok, but that's a question that nobody could absolutely guarantee.

Oh, and the drill will make the lapping job a LOT quicker. Trust me on that.

[BrettS]

Hey Errol, That is an idea I may not of heard of before, could make the job a bit quicker.
I have given it some extra stick often enough but it decided this one time was when it had enough. But yes I agree I think it was comming and if I was more experienced I would have seen it comming as well.
 I am really enjoying those times you say the bike surprises you. I find it is most often after I have exited a corner and I may be looking at turning off the turn signal at the same time turning the accelerator and Hello Nelly don't let go of the handle bars 
In one mind I am thinking new head gasket and throw it back together.
Who knows. If I lapp the valves and they seat all true then maybe the con rods will not take the extra compression and fail. Then again Que Sera, Sera 

[Eveready1100]

Hi Brett. Sorry to hear of your dramas but glad you are on top of it with hopefully no other ill effects. Now, in hindsight, maybe Dusty has been building up to to this eruption for a while -

There has been a slight sqeak in the engine for a while now

Sounds by that description that it may have been leaking slightly, but threw the towel completely when

Gave the bike a bit of stick to catch up

Oh well, if it helps, here's a little trick I learned years ago for lapping valves easily.
Ingredients: one electric drill, a piece of tube (old fuel line?) that fits tightly over the valve stem, and an appropriate sized bit of shaft (cut off bolt works well) to stick in the drill chuck and squeeze the line over it to use as a flexible drive shaft.
Prep the valve as you normally would with a smear of lapping compound on the seat, and insert it into the guide, putting a drop of oil on the shaft as you put it in. Now from the topside, wipe the stem as clean of oil as you can then force the tubing down over the stem. Attach the drill to the tube and away you go.
Note that the drill only serves to rotate the valve. (only at relatively low speeds too, I must advise from experience), so holding the drill in one hand, sit the head on a bench vertically and hold the head with the other and use one finger (bit of oil on the contact area helps) to push the valve into the seat lightly. Let it spin for a few seconds then release the finger pressure and let the valve head clear the seat (pushing back lightly with the drill) which allows the compound to get back into the cutting face. And repeat till a nice finish is achieved.
I know it sounds complicated but once you've set it up and had a go, it's piss easy.

Tips: Don't use tubing that is too long. The flexi joint should be as short as possible to help align the valve stem and drill.
        Don't let the end of the tubing contact the valve stem seal as it could get burnt by friction.
        If you happen to get any oil in the drive tubing, and the valve slips, just toss the tubing ang fit a new piece. You'll never get it to work properly again so save yourself some time.
        Don't try to put too much pressure on the valve head with your finger. The lapping compound will do its thing with only moderate pressure.

Just read through this and it's really hard to describe so I've set up some pics to show what I was trying to describe............... and before anyone starts, No! It's not an XS1100 head but it's all I could come up with at 11.15 at night!


 ^ The tools required.


 ^ drill drive unit set up on valve in head (I use my right hand to hold the drill)\


 ^ Left hand holding head upright and finger pressing valve crown.

This is much easier if you have a helper, but still quite manageable on your own.

[BrettS]

[BrettS]

I reckon I will Christian. I have the weekend to come up with a plan for a head Gasket so expect a call Sunday.

Looks like I will be on top of this in no time Paul, Seems Dusty is easing me in gently with only a minor failure. Although with all that oil leaking out I might have to start calling it Slick Dusty 

Looking forward to them turning up Melbs Hopefully I have time to fit them, I am thinking of being trendy and going to the rally with a bare metal tank, patina is all the rage and the badges will be needed to set that off 
I refurbished the BBQ area last week and it turned out great, but the down side is I obviously can't use the BBQ area as my jack of all trades work bench any more. So after pulling the head of I had to make myself up a new little bench. Still need a bit more steel plate and a vice to finish it off, maybe a couple of shelves and even a tool borad 

I filled the combustion chambers up with fuel and over the last 3 or 4 hours 1-3 chambers I think have lost about 3/4 of the area number 4 maybe 1/4. Looks like I should do a valve seating. I think I had a go at that in high school, or at least I have seen some one do it.
Should not be too hard hey, suction stick past and just remove the valve spring?