XS1100 AUSTRALIA
XS1100 Topics => Workshop => Topic started by: excess.11 on March 28, 2016, 07:22:15 AM
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Hi Steve....before you get drastic re the front handling ......go through the general items that may also affect it.
It would be great if you would post a few pics of your bike. An alternative would be to email pics to a member who could post them on the site for you.
What have you looked at /done so far regarding this issue of handling?
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Hi Jeff I have replaced the triple tree and the head stem bearings as some threads were damaged not allowing it to be tighten up properly also replaced the steering damper ,the steering damper made a difference however over about 75 k's it feels like it wants to go into a tank slapper .I haven't ridden it yet with the new triple tree as I have had the gears undercut and im in the process of putting it all back together . I will take some pics and post them soon
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Hi Steve
some pic would be nice, the twitchiness is common that gets tuned out with fine tuning of the frame geometry
I'll dig some info up for you
outfit has a handling problem its to twitchy at speed i suspect its in the leading link to much lead
dose said leading link front end have 1 or 2 positions for the horizontal legs ?
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Yes i think it has as i rode it to day and no change after the the new triple tree, bearings still gets very twitchy at about 75 k's it has about 150mm of trail .Dont want to break any speed limits however like to travel on the tar at about 90 to 100 km think it needs a design change to the leading link I have played with the angle of the boat to the bike and have found a position that works best . Front wheel and swing arm bearings are all good . Deferentially would be looking at at leading link design from a guy like Bill who has the engineering smarts to get it right . the current leading link has no adjustments on it
PS how do I attach a pic
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Steve....what tyre pressures are you running on the front ...rear...and chair ?
Have you checked all tyres are fresh ......not old and gone hard .....should have a manufactures date stamped on them. Is there uneven wear regarding tread depth and shoulder wear. Does ir have ...car like profile tyres installed ?
What are the brand of and size tyres on the 3 wheels and what are the stated maximum pressures on each ?
Check all tyres have been set on the rims correctly....by looking for runout on the bead.
Have you rebalanced all tyres ?
Have you added weigbt into the chair via a passenger or other to check differences in handling ?
How wide and what style of handlebars are fit to the bike ?
Regarding posting pics ...there is an instructional tab that runs you through how to post pics on the forum home page .
Send me an email with pics attached to quickly get them posted if you like. Just until you get used to posting them on here.
Also check out this topic and video.
http://xs1100.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=2045.msg13407#msg13407
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the twitch is coming from the leading link, the centre of the front wheel is to close to the point of no trail, at 115 or 120 kph you might find yourself being able to almost 180 it effortlessly,
the point of no trail is determined by running a line through the centre of the headstem all the way to the floor, general set up rule of thumb about 25mm negative trail {before the point on the floor}
can be moved from here for individuals, forward for someone with weak shoulders for arguments sake,, back for Arnold Schwarzenager
as long as all joints and mointing bolts are tight and free of play
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Hi yeah the tyre pressures are all good the tyres are in good cond maybe old and hard but plenty of tred and round , the word twitch might be a bit light on instant fear of a tank slapper is more like it .As Steptoe and Tim has said the line of the forks from the headstem thru to the floor is at the same point as the centre of the wheel at the ground if any thing the wheel is about 5 or so mm forward I need to get it roadworthy so i can ride it and play around with tyres weight as i think will fine tune it after the mayor issues are a fixed.so next its off to the auto elect to get the electrics sorted lights indicators etc while i wait for the bits for the brake rebuild .I will post some pics but there isnt a way of adding a attachments that i can see when I post
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Steve....have you read through....how to post pics.....
The tab is on the front page of the forum.
You ll need to set up an account on a photo sharing website....such as imageshack.
Then upload photos you want to share that are on your computer.
There is an image code you click on to copy the link ....then open another page on your pc with the dialoge box of a reply or new topic ...and right click then paste the copied code.
Once you post that reply or new topic...the pic should appear.
I m concerned that you have old...hard tyres...albeit with plenty of tread as you describe.
You really ....really....really need to ditch them as fast as you can....and fit fresh new rubber .
The difference in handling ...not to mention safety...will astound you.
The side wall of Hard tyres will bounce you off the road rather than flex .
I m sure this will be adding to your handling problems.
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Steve....have you read through....how to post pics.....
The tab is on the front page of the forum.
You ll need to set up an account on a photo sharing website....such as imageshack.
Then upload photos you want to share that are on your computer.
There is an image code you click on to copy the link ....then open another page on your pc with the dialoge box of a reply or new topic ...and right click then paste the copied code.
Once you post that reply or new topic...the pic should appear.
I m concerned that you have old...hard tyres...albeit with plenty of tread as you describe.
You really ....really....really need to ditch them as fast as you can....and fit fresh new rubber .
The difference in handling ...not to mention safety...will astound you.
The side wall of Hard tyres will bounce you off the road rather than flex and give better grip to the road.
I m sure this will be adding to your handling problems.
You don't have to go through all that anymore.
If you put an album on OUR photobucket account that I set up
http://s1106.photobucket.com/user/XS1100Aus/library/RUZVEEKGBF?sort=2&page=1
the links to post photo's are already there to be copy and pasted onto the forum.
Easy as
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Xtian...can we reconfigure the "How to post" tab so it references what you just explained.
I think it needs more step by step detail.
Would help "Newbies" like myself immensly.
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Xtian......i m trying as hard as I can to get some pics of Steve s bike on here. As we all know....a picture is worth a thousand words.
Steve....click on my name and you ll see my email address.
Attach some photos to an email and send them to me and I ll post them up.
You may need to reduce the resolution of the pics as email only has a limited /minor allowance for attachments size wise.
Alternatively......you can send them one at a time on separate emails.
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Xtian......i m trying as hard as I can to get some pics of Steve s bike on here. As we all know....a picture is worth a thousand words.
Steve....click on my name and you ll see my email address.
Attach some photos to an email and send them to me and I ll post them up.
You may need to reduce the resolution of the pics as email only has a limited /minor allowance for attachments size wise.
Alternatively......you can send them one at a time on separate emails.
Here s a great explanation ass well as line drawings regarding rake and trail.
Always good to get permission if you want to post someone elses blog
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Steve s XS Outfit in all her glory....I ll post them into the forums photobucket account when I get a little more time.
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1002.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf142%2FExcess11%2FStevesxs%2520sidecar4_zpsltakxesx.jpg&hash=15ec816f1354bc6fcf9af679d9292fd3b7b0bcbd) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/Excess11/media/Stevesxs%20sidecar4_zpsltakxesx.jpg.html)
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1002.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf142%2FExcess11%2FStevesxs%2520sidecar5_zps1oqcia34.jpg&hash=24f46b5d4950e539e96aba7d0d642a8ced536d87) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/Excess11/media/Stevesxs%20sidecar5_zps1oqcia34.jpg.html)
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1002.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf142%2FExcess11%2FStevesxs%2520sidecar1_zpsk0zzawhs.jpg&hash=f35e8cc40be79adfe5a1ee04049b73aa3de6772f) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/Excess11/media/Stevesxs%20sidecar1_zpsk0zzawhs.jpg.html)
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1002.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf142%2FExcess11%2FStevesxs%2520sidecar2_zpsukwqzgrk.jpg&hash=57e593e7e020f5c8bb1cfee0132796ab8aa00fc3) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/Excess11/media/Stevesxs%20sidecar2_zpsukwqzgrk.jpg.html)
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1002.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf142%2FExcess11%2FStevesxs%2520sidecar3_zpse3pray2u.jpg&hash=4d5489fa158b7cca5b6e8bb5430d74c2a9664dec) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/Excess11/media/Stevesxs%20sidecar3_zpse3pray2u.jpg.html)
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I know diddly about side cars, but is that front wheel too far forward?
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yes i think so hence the scary handling after i get it on the road and set it up for more dirt orientation with a load and the new tyres I Will know what sort of adjustment is needed to correct it (with a bit of sound engineering advice ) it will be used mainly for off road touring hence im not after high speed on the tar 90 to 100 kmh comfortably between dirt stages is fine ,planning a ride across Aust Perth to Birdsville William creek etc dirt and sand nearly all the way in August with a group of guys mainly on GSX 1400 outfits, the rest of the bike is great motor is tough even after months of the road and the gears under cut a couple of twists of the throttle it fired up pulls really well i have plenty of confidence in it, dont know if you can see it in the pics but the swing arm has a truss system welded along it strengthening it up , I had the middle and final drives apart they are like brand new ,new headstem bearings swingarm bearings are new ,the only gremlin in it is a electrical one thats why its of to a auto sparky next week to sort it out
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Steve that front wheel is too far forward, and a bit too low, if you can't do it yourself find an engineering shop and i would suggest putting 2 new mounts under the swing arm, 2 as in 2 different positions for the front wheel then you will have something to play with as far as setup goes, the caliper mount shouldn't need to be moded, maby shorten the radius arm if the caliper comes too far forward, the way the setup is now the wheel will be trying to sweep the floor when you turn the bars, would also be very hard and heavy, that setup would be good on a speedway or short circuit outfit but not too sure how it would go even on dirt road riding. See what the others think.
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Even visually with out any measuring .....it appears the front wheel would want to lead from the rear......like a shopping trolleys wheel swung around and wanting to be pushed forward in a straight line
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Hi Steve
with pics I agree with excess and makzy that front right shocky is over stretched i guess if you got the center rod out it wouldn't be straight. how low long is the front leg from the rear bearing center to the front axle center,
it may be an optical illusion but is the rear lg axle center sitting level with the front or below it ?
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Ideally as with any swing arm it should be pointing downward from it's pivot point at about 1/3 rd of it's full travel. IE. if it has 100mm travel loaded it should have about 30-35mm downward angle, this is to allow the wheel to go through it's up and down movement without moving backward or forward too much, looking at the pics again I see that the swing arm pivot is probably too low' you could fix that with some longer shocks, that would fix the swing arm angle and lift the front of the bike a bit more to where it should be, pity you don't live close I could fix it in a day...
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Steve...you only have ONE electrical gremlin ?
It looks like Pro Hart designed the electrical !
The good thing about interacting with issues on the forum....is you...yourself.... gets a better understanding of your bike and how to deal with issues. Out at Williams Creek or anywhere along those tracks there won t be an auto elec. (Geez i envy you taking on that adventure though).
What is the electrical issue you have?
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Steve....here is a link that will "tickle your fancy".
Read and re read this info..and before you know it...... hey presto...sim sala bim...walla walla bing bang...
You ll become a "tech spurt".
It encompasses comments on here regarding trail and rake and as Maksy said.....the relationship between the rear wheel ... as well as telling you "how to suck eggs"...even "how to suck some New eggs".
All in all.............its "Good Sucking Fun".
http://bikearama.com/theory/motorcycle-rake-trail-explained/
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I was going to say the same type of thing the other night Steve, lengthening the front shocks will lift the front head angle pushing the headstem line further forward bringing the centreline of the front wheel back towards the bike decreasing the amount of negative trail, this would be the easiest quickest fix
it will also change the length of your brake arm parralellagram so that will have to be adjusted also to work properly
moving the bottom shock mounts back so the shocks run in a straight line the the link legs will make the ride better too