XS1100 AUSTRALIA
XS1100 Topics => Modifications => Topic started by: BrettS on March 06, 2013, 10:24:39 PM
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I decided if I have any chance of understanding the electrics of the bike then i have to have a go at installing this Speedo myself. If I get stuck then the professionals can take over, just have to be very careful I don't blow anything
At first the wiring drawing made no sense but as I am writing this I think I am starting to get it.
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg59.imageshack.us%2Fimg59%2F4707%2Fimg12dt.jpg&hash=5e72717149e2d53f59fc27276debc876f7a153b5)
I wanted to start with what is highlighted in red.
It seems to me that all the A block wires just go to the respective wire that did the same job on the original instruments. But I am a little confused why the negative is only directly to the Neutral and oil lights.
I think I have worked out the RPM setup as the yellow wire just wraps around a spark plug lead but if anyone can tell me what the other option is (install sensor using the supplied bolt of self tapper screw, the instructions say) Guess i screw the wire into something instead of wrapping it around the lead but not sure what i screw it into? What is the CDI ?
Thanks for any help.
Here is the colour wiring chart just to make it easier
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg543.imageshack.us%2Fimg543%2F1225%2Fviewernb.png&hash=19ff60cb4e907797d1402fcce14c2e48553d1b5d)
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Just as I started to get some were on this a couple of days ago I got called in for a night shift. Even with that excuse the pace is pretty slow.
Brushed stainless mount 3mm thick.
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg252.imageshack.us%2Fimg252%2F1223%2F051mg.jpg&hash=ff2aa89348d5bc1f2cbcddb0d790cd8e34efd6cf)
The speedo has a magnet and a sensor that needs to be mounted, I used one of the disk bolts with a z bracket and a 90 deg bracket of a caliper bolt to hold the sensor. The magnet needs to pass one, not two of the lines at either end of the sensor and not be more than 8mm away.
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg405.imageshack.us%2Fimg405%2F6269%2F044wh.jpg&hash=f9ae845455452532bc43cb191749502591841f16)
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg694.imageshack.us%2Fimg694%2F3829%2F045sy.jpg&hash=c154c076fdf75ebfc431c3211290d0b14c3f43be)
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg822.imageshack.us%2Fimg822%2F9829%2F050zv.jpg&hash=0b4a75e36e88f5725308860da2edd43adbf307dd)
Now I need to sought the wiring ??? This is were I was planning on handing over to the lecky :o
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg820.imageshack.us%2Fimg820%2F634%2F046rn.jpg&hash=37a6ee4088e629b2c335b78cc54354abb70d094a)
I figured I needed to calm the nerves a little but I think I may be more of a turkey than the drink :-X
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg687.imageshack.us%2Fimg687%2F9638%2F047tsb.jpg&hash=e1de770fa1de619dc18f98105cf19dac8a651bb8)
I am still confused as to why negative or ground wires would be connected in group A surely they can't just get connected straight to the other wire but that seems to me what the drawing is saying??????? Any electrical savvy out there that can give any hints?
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(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg94.imageshack.us%2Fimg94%2F7739%2Fimg121nn.jpg&hash=6b4d9b4309339f41c5340e251861181831ff800e)
I really don't get what they are asking were I have circled in Blue but I figure I will take my best guess. Doubt there is much chance these wires can blow anything??
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Another question, I was going to use one of the speedo light wires as power for the acwell but now thinking that would only have power when I turn the lights on, any other sugeestions which wire I could use for general power to the unit?
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Hey Bretts,
just how far out of your comfort zone ??? are you in the dark arts of auto electricity.
I would ask just how much is your bike worth to you is the BURNING question :'( :'( :'(
You've got it pulled apart, you've got a schematic, the parts are fitted, so how much can a leccy mech charge :-\
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Hey Brett
I'm an electrical heathen too, but all I can see is they've joined the earths together.
Shouldn't be a drama if you run ''em single or joined.
power direct from battery? I suppose its got a memory to keep alive with power for the odometer?
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I know Jonesy otherwise I would have been asking for a section of the shed to park my bum :P Thanks for the input though.
just how far out of your comfort zone are you in the dark arts of auto electricity.
Hey Fred It is kinda like parachuting for the couch I am so far away from my comfort zone. I have A great auto lecky here but I figure If i want to play with the wires and hide them all just as. Then I better learn to do it myself.
Not going too bad so far, I have indicators high beam and clock going. Need speedo and rpm and I am almost home. I blew a headlight fuse while using the digital meter, not sure how that happened?
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Getting close, I found the wire I used for the clock was better suited as the "switch key" wire. This is the one that gives the unit power when you turn the key and that lite the unit up with everything firing now. The clock power needs a wire that is "always on" I haven't found one for that yet and maybe the xs does not even have one and I will need to create it ?
I got the tacho going but it was reading high and unstable so as per instructions when this happens I incorporated a 1 ohm resistor into the line. This seemed better but still seems unstable?
Time to fix all the joins. Put it back together and take it for a run and see what we have.
I think this is meant to be water temp but I may have read or figure it could be oil temp if I could find a place to bolt it into the motor? (https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg17.imageshack.us%2Fimg17%2F6200%2F052hx.jpg&hash=5aba756ce1b9f0431b5ea4ecb9f2d13a5cb6cf00)
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I just can't get the rev counter to work consistently. Does the XS have two sparks per revolution?
Otherwise all works well. Think I have the speedo pretty close but need to check it.
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Does this help ?
How to set engine RPM specifications (numbers of turn per signal)? (Only for models with Tachometer function) 2007-03-21
1. Push and hold both MODE & RESET buttons for 2 seconds to go into the unit- setting screen.
2. It displays KM/H or M/H; press MODE button many times until the tachometer specifications setting screen “RPM SPC-X.X” appears. It means the engine rotates how many turns to output a signal.
3. There are 4 options: 0.5, 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0. Each press of RESET button changes the 4 numbers in a loop sequence. 4. Press RESET button until desired number then press MODE button 2 seconds to complete the setting and return to main screen.
5. Automatic reversion to main screen if no button operation for 20 seconds.
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Thanks Jeff I had that and that is why I was wondering how many sparks per revolution the xs has.
Ie. does it have a spark on the exaust stroke as well as the ignition stroke ?
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Brett .............Once per revolution.
CDI=TCI
The oil and neutral indicators are negative or ground switched.
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I think this is meant to be water temp but I may have read or figure it could be oil temp if I could find a place to bolt it into the motor?
Hey Brett
you could drill and tap the sump plug to take the sensor you photo'd
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Ok Thanks Jeff, that means it should be at the 1.0 setting I believe. That is were I started but was getting very high readings.
It seems others that have had this trouble found moving the earth helped alot. Although it seemed the earth i did on the forks was working very well on a night time ride I see oil and neutral light flickering lightly when they are off so it seems I do have a weak earth. I will get it onto the frame in the morning.
Another solution seems to be attaching the tacho wire directly to the coil (instead of wrapping around plug lead) but I still have not worked out how that is done.
Thanks Jonesy, I had wondered if it could replace the sump plug but had not thought of that ::)
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Try increasing the number of turns of the wire wrapped around the plug lead.
Any ground or negative points should be done to the main frame.....battery......or to a neg wire already run into the headlight shell from the main wiring loom. These are "permanent "ground points i m talking about....as opposed to "switched" ground points..
Don t ground any wire to the front end / fork area
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Thanks Jeff
"The oil and neutral indicators are negative or ground switched" Whatever that means I guess the XS has that as standard because they seem to be working?
"CDI=TCI"
So I figure if I find the positive wire to the TCI unit I just jack into that?
Edit: I have tried a few different wraps and starting to think it is something else. Others have tried all soughts of different wire setups resistors and the soughts but all seem to have found a fundamental issue such as earth.
My main concern at the moment is the unit looks a little like an apprentice put it together so I hope I don't have a dud. Or it is unsuitable for the bike?
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There s always that possibility of a fault within the unit.
If you have used a ground point other than what i have previously described...........reattach it to one of the areas as mentioned.
Check your earth points on the regulator/rectifier unit..remove the screw and clean the thread and contact points and cables from the main wiring loom.....also the neg lead from the battery to the frame.......and the frame to the engine......clean/scrape all these points and threads to ensure good continuity.
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Thanks again Jeff,
I had fitted a new engine earth as you advised. I did then find the original engine earth and it was loose so after tightning that I have two confidents earths on the motor.
This acwell unit has a group of earthing wires which i figure may need to be earthed better, I will check the battery leads and such again as well.
Cheers ;)
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Hey Brett
I hope your going to tighten up the loose axle clamp nut at the bottom of the forks. I just noticed it in your speedo reed switch photo
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I wondered when some one would say something about that. It was my first mounting option and yep I did remember to tighten it up before going back on the road, just.
Earthed it back to the battery now and it seems I am getting some interference wrapping the rpm wire around the plug lead. Need to try the other option so have to find the positive to the coil from TCI unit ???
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Thought I had it ?
Earthed back to the battery and found either the orange or grey/blue wire heading into each coil worked very well. It was all calm(no jumping around) and was reading very well. Went for a ride around town and I was very impressed at how well it all worked. Took it out on the high way and at first it was great but then the shift light started coming on at strange times and the rpm needle kept dropping lower and lower no matter what the rpm was ???
Switched the unit to show the revs on the digital meter as well and it was giving a different readout to the analoge gauge, but maybe acurate reading?
Hmmm. Turned the unit on and off and it went back to normal for a bit before playing up again.
Starting to think the unit is a dud, It did have some indications that not the most experienced put the unit together so I might organise a swap.
I could try it without the resistor now but when it is working then not I doubt it would be that?
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hello Brett
when I fitted my Acewell unit I had issues with the speedo which were sorted by emailing George from Acewell
george <george@acewell-meter.com>
I suspect my unit (ACE-3853) reads high in the RPM but do not have a reliable tacho to verify this - its academic really though,
I rarely rev the poor thing anywhere near exploding.... ;D
Bryan
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How often is rarely though? Bryan ;D :o
Keep at it Brett you, 'll sort it
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Thanks Bryan, The problem I have is not slight but at first probably double the rpm. When i connected to the coil it seemed to work Great and "seemed" to me to read exactly as it should but then after a good hard run the needle rpm would start to drop off and at times refuse to go over 2000 even though the bike was obviously doing around the 5000. Did you wrap your rpm wire around the plug lead or direct to a + coil wire.
This unit had several slight manufacturer faults visible. Just little things like what looked like glue on the very edge of the display, the cable had prominent drag marks were it had been pulled through the case when made, A few very small but definite scratches heading away from the buttons on the glass and little bits of fluff inside the glass. It just seemed that it was put together by a less experienced worker and maybe should not have passed QC.
I probably would have put up with all that but then we noticed the display moved on the left when pushing buttons and the RPM started going haywire showing a big difference (several thousand RPM) between the needle and digital display I started to think it had to be a faulty unit. The only possible thing I can think of that would do that is a bad earth and since I had earthed the unit directly to the battery with a strong wire I new that could be ruled out.
Talking with the distributor they agree and have asked for the unit to be sent back and they will "Likely" send a replacement unit. They seem like a decent supplier so fingers crossed that will go well. I have left all the wiring intact and just unplugged the unit to post away so it will be interesting to plug a replacement unit in and see.
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Sounds good ... I spoke to a couple of 12v sparkies (mates) who suggested that unwrapping the loom
a bit to make the connections was the way to go - I found that it was straight forward to connect it up -
My tacho is connected to a coil direct not a plug lead - the fuel gauge will work if I fit the correct resistor
or re-calibrate the sender in the tank - frankly, its not worth the trouble I reckon.
B
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Got the replacement Acwell speedo on Friday. I even chased the postman down the road to make sure I got it Ha Ha.
Plugged it into the existing wiring I did with the last one and went for a run. Perfect. The revs seem spot on and are constant and reliable. the shift light comes on at the correct time every time. The Kmh also seems to be right. That works off the wheel diameter and is adjustable so may still need a slight tweak if my calculation was out.
Cost me an extra $20 in postage to have it replaced but I guess that's the way it goes some times. The seller was always very helpful.
Might have to do a little video when I get my head around all the functions. Got average speed top speed and revs but they are the simple ones.
Thanks Bryan, once I am comfortable all is well I will be going through the wiring seeing what is now redundent, there seems to be a few.
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Great news Bretto... :D
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Another thing that happened on the Run to Bourke was the speedo started playing up, The needle was rubbing on the backing display and it got a bit quirky on the reading.
Sent back for another replacement. So speedo number three turned up on the door step today.
I had hard wired the last one into the bike removing the bulky conectors so it will take some work to work out what goes here again ::)
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Well Speedo number three now hooked up and operational. All seems ok. I thought I was going to be able to hook up the fuel gauge as well this time but couldn't get it to work, always reads empty same issue Bryan had with his. I pulled the fuel sensor out of the tank expecting to be able to move the sensor up and down to see if I could get the reading to change and found this ??
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg547.imageshack.us%2Fimg547%2F7572%2F4l5v.jpg&hash=b4203882beda33a229b2635600dfe48be6fa83f1)
Which I am guessing is the sensor which just tells you when you are out of fuel not a level? I thought they were only in the small tanks?
Also I reckon I may have found why my last speedo failed. When I went to change something on the speedo while riding I found the speedo had a small but strong vibration to it. Although the unit is meant to be strong and I have it mounted on the original rubber mount that the old speedo was on maybe the fabricated stainless mount is doing a bit of mechanical resonance ?
Makes a lot of sense so I think I will do a little redesign of the mount to ensure a longer life.
Oh and Bryan I found the readings for the fuel sender
Full = 6 to 10 Ohms
Half = 28.5 to 36.5 Ohms
Empty = 75 to 85 Ohms
That means the closest reading is 100r although it may never show empty, not sure. Also if you are not using the fuel gauge and the empty flashing is annoying you should be able to turn the fuel gauge off altogether in the settings.
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Hey Brett half your fuel gauge sensor is missing. It should have an arm and a float on it like a dunny cistern. The level float arm is attached to a an electrical do hickey also in the tank on that plate you showed
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Are you sure? That's what I thought at first glance but then I saw several the same for sale on eBay.
CLICK (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/80-XS1100-XS-1100-Yamaha-gas-fuel-sensor-sending-unit-/260846783156)
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg194.imageshack.us%2Fimg194%2F1021%2F5yuo.jpg&hash=c8fb64a40b03072cb280d6b1e372557f09042c4f)
I would guess that it is from a smaller tank and they are actually interchangeable but I will leave the confirmation of that to the XS Guru's ??
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Yes, Brett. That's a thermistor out of the small tanks. They're simply an on / off switch.
This is what the sender unit from the bigg'uns looks like -
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi950.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fad349%2FEveready1100%2FXS11%2520fuel%2520cap%2520pics%2FScreenHunter_20Aug041416_zpsba971146.jpg&hash=8ef37e8a439a09e88443267ebba228786d570839) (http://s950.photobucket.com/user/Eveready1100/media/XS11%20fuel%20cap%20pics/ScreenHunter_20Aug041416_zpsba971146.jpg.html)
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi950.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fad349%2FEveready1100%2FXS11%2520fuel%2520cap%2520pics%2FScreenHunter_19Aug041416_zpsaa92fbfd.jpg&hash=55b23c42f6a7b8dd7fe739ca7d0480c3eabaa5f9) (http://s950.photobucket.com/user/Eveready1100/media/XS11%20fuel%20cap%20pics/ScreenHunter_19Aug041416_zpsaa92fbfd.jpg.html)
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So it seems you can put a small tank sender in a big tank. What happens if you put a large tank sender in a small tank?
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Unfortunately, they won't work properly as there's not enough room for the float to move through its range of movement.
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Bretts,
I got one of them floating DooHickeys on a spare tank. I'll get that to you somehowz.
Eddy
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Cheers Errol, All academic now because I no longer have the small tank but if I still had the small tank I reckon it could be worth a try to shorten the rod a bit. Might not work pefect but could be better than a warning light. Guess Yamaha had good reason to leave it out, just thinking aloud.
Cheers Eddy, that would be great. I will send you a PM.
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Would you believe #4 is now kaput after about 400km. So as a review, #1 would never work properly, #2 worked excellent till the trip to Bourke were the tacho needle started to rub the face plate and then play up. #3 Worked great at first but did not seal properly and the morning fog got inside and stuffed a diod or whatever?, lost right indicator light, #4 worked great but today the tacho needle started going poltergeist on me as I watched it creep up to the full 12000 revs as I was cruising in top gear and never to come down again ??.
I was surprised the guy that sold it to me wanted to try again with #4. He reckons he has not had a single other unit returned? I have the unit buffed with the original XS rubber speedo mounts but I did notice some vibration. I was going to brace the mounting plate just in case to ensure a long life of the unit but seriously they are supposed to be bullet proof.
So I will call the poor retailer Tuesday for a refund and looks like I need a new plan ????
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Just reviewing the post and Bryan gave an email for Acwell george@acewell-meter.com
I reckon I might send him a quick summary of the trouble I have had and see if they have an explanation?
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yes mate ....... into him....
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I,d be starting to think there is an issue with power supply, into the circuitry, either to much or not enough,,,
Or maybe not constant or stable enough
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The unit has a voltage reader and it usually states 12 or higher about 14.5 is usual when it is running.
???
Not sure how that could cause several of the faults such as the tacho needle rubbing on the face plate ???
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Hey Brett if you persist with the acewell #5. to get some rigidity in the mount you might be able to make something to mount in the bracket with the 2 captured 8mm nuts that runs up and down the frame head stock. it just means the speedo will stay still when you turn the bars, not move with the bars as it does now.
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I think I am done Jonesy. My best guess is #1 was a flat out faulty unit #3 may or may not have been faulty as the distributor suggested with a warm day the glue expands and seals the unit ? But I reckon #2 and 4 were probably good units but it seems the units can't handle the vibration of the bike. Yes I could come up with some better way of mounting the unit but will that get me only several years of operation. For the money I want a unit that would last a very long time.
My last summary may have been a little misleading, here is the email I sent of today.
Hi I purchased the Acewell 4553AB LCD Digital Speedometer with Black Anodised Housing and Traditional Style Tacho - 12000rpm from your Australian distributer S3 Performance. I have now had 4 separate units fail.
#1 Would never work properly. It seemed that maybe the “apprentice” put this one together as the cord had considerable scratching from being pulled through the housing the face plate moved when you pushed the buttons and glue was also visible through the glass. The tacho needle was never accurate and gave a different reading to the digital tacho. The supplier exchanged it for a replacement unit.
#2 When plugged into the existing wiring from instillation #1 worked perfect and I was very happy until, after several hundred Km’s the tacho needle started to rub on the face plate and then start to give an inconsistent reading.
#3 Worked great at first but condensation was soon visible under the face plate and then the right hand tell tale failed.
#4 Worked great but after about 400Km I watched the tacho needle slowly rise to the 12000 rev limit as I was cruising at about 4000 revs and it is now stuck at the full right and will not return even when the power is shut down.
As you can understand this has been all very disappointing and frustrating as it takes some considerable time to wire the unit to the bike, I am often without a speedo as I need to post it back to get the replacement posted out to me usually at my cost. Almost $400 is also a large outlay for a unit that continues to fail.
I will again contact the distributer when they open, this time for a refund which is a pity because I very much liked the way the unit worked and looked when it was working properly. Also i have spent a considerable amount of time fitting and refitting the unit.
Sincerely,
Brett Summers
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Oh well you could always go back to a single original round XS speedo and don't worry about having idiot lights
hope you get your money back, its seems the only decent thing acwell can do now.
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Brett.....from your description there may be the possibility you have been .....sold/had replaced......refurbished units .
Very much the "Bunnings mentality" has been applied more than once.....what the suppliers /retailers don t give a shit about as you have pointed out.........is the amount of your own time taken up returning their poor quality product time and time again .
I would of hit them up for some form of compensation to cover your costs .
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Pretty confident I will get the money back, the distributor at S3P has been pretty good really, apart from the first unit they all looked very good and I do think brand new. I was surprised he wanted to try a 4th unit but I was easily convinced as he agreed to pay postage that time and I had only just rewired the whole thing again with the plugs after I practically hard wired unit #2 when it was working well. So this last unit was plug and play again.
I will be interested what Acewell themselves have to say though?
I am thinking of going back to an original tacho (what did they read off?), Add a cheaper digital speedo and a few tell tale lights. I just didn't see anything else on the market that I liked aesthetically except the MOTO Gadget that is almost twice the price. But I will be looking again.
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Hey Bretts,
Your bike is nearly remorhed back into an original XS1100. all you need now to complete your transformation is the original clocks and your path to the "right" side will be complete. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Hope you get your hard earned refunded.
Eddy
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Haha, don't count ya chickens yet Eddy. This Motogadget mini is now at the top of the list 8)
MOTOSCOPE MINI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygkafaMkY8o)
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I got a Very quick but short and sweet reply from George,
Hi Brett,
Thank you for the e-mail and very sorry for the problem you have had. Please return to the unit to the dealer you purchased from.
(It was also forwarded to S3P)
Hi Brendan,
Please take care of this case and send back to us. Sorry for the problem.
Best regards,
George M.S. LEE
ACEWELL INTERNATIONAL CO., LTD.
I called up the shop this morning and talked with Brendan. He said Acwell is doing a lot of great work at the moment but these particular models are tainting their image with a high return rate. Mike at the shop was apparently mistaken by telling me in the past I was the only one having trouble with them.
How I would love to charge them for their mistake and my time >:( but I will have to settle for a refund and at least I convinced them to pay for the return postage again this time.
Rego due soon and I need a speedo ???
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If their quality control is so slack that they've just sat back and shoveled inferior goods knowing that they're effing worthless, then having the temerity to squeal that their shyte-products are bringing them a bad name... yeah right, I know where I'd be telling them where to go :o
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Yes It's not good Pg but I think I am better waiting till I get my "almost" full refund before I give them some polite directions. I am a professional pain in the ass so maybe they will get their comeuppance yet ::)