XS1100 AUSTRALIA
XS1100 Topics => Workshop => Topic started by: BrettS on January 13, 2013, 11:22:21 AM
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I noticed the oil was leaking from the gearbox. Well when I went to fix it the first time I thought it was engine oil that was leaking. I removed the hex head bolts and then with some persuasion the cover plate. I realised there was also a spacer or something of the like after the cover plate. I was not game to force this off so I just made a new gasket out of a cornflakes packet applied liberal gasket goo and replaced. At first this seemed to slow the leak at least.
Then recently on a short trip out of town to meet up with Jonesy I checked all the oils and found the middle gear oil to be very low. Topped this up and found that the leak was actually the middle gear oil and was still quite bad.
So my question is can I also simply remove this "spacer" behind the cover plate, what am I actually messing with here and although I reckon my cornflake packet gasket was a ripper if I was to buy gaskets for here which kit would they come in?
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg33.imageshack.us%2Fimg33%2F2232%2Fcamera113032.jpg&hash=175c5801330194d013836a4d9d2a247dc7b2c1cd)
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Hey Bretts
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/YAMAHA-XS2-D-XS750-XS850-XS1100-XJ1100-CAP-HOUSING-GASKET-OEM-1J7-17519-Y0-00-/160912383090?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2577201c72
http://www.nwvcp.com/pages/OemParts#/Yamaha/XS1100H_-_1981/MIDDLE_DRIVE_GEAR/XS1100H_(1981_MOTORCYCLE)/MIDDLE_DRIVE_GEAR_(XS1100H_-_1981)
Eddy
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Thanks Eddy, but now I have more questions ???
So do we call this the cap housing? What is that shim for? Won't I need two gaskets, one to go behind the spacer and I still don't know if I can take that spacer off.
It seems to me since my first repair did not work then it is leaking from behind the spacer.
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I just went to take a picture of the spacer and it becomes a little clearer. I now see that shim behind the spacer. If I can just get some advice on what this spacer and shim does and how it comes off I would just order a part such as you suggest Eddy and then I can degrease the driveway again ;)
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg255.imageshack.us%2Fimg255%2F8109%2Fbikek.jpg&hash=48aa2f726b550fc19b6819980c81ead0333739e7)
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Brett , Item number 4 is an O-Ring........could this be your problem?
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1002.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf142%2FExcess11%2Fxs1100middlegeardriveassembly.gif&hash=b3b71ed1ffcb35dedf075df4e2ed993c7d771e34)
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Could be Jeff, I will have another look at the manual looking for that explosion, does it show gaskets??
I am guessing 5 is what I have been calling the spacer 6 is the gasket and 3 is the shim. If so I would guess it is either the o ring or the shim that is leaking??
How much do i need to pull apart to get to them??
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Hey Brett
reckon you'll have to undo nut #9 and what appears to be circlip #8
then depending on how tight the fit is for bearing #7 on the shaft i& bearing housing retainer #5 inside main casing #2 you should be able to withdraw 5, 6 & 7 together.
keep everything in order as you remove it and should be a piece of piss to go back together.
Or
Talk to Eddy he has a dead one on the deck and could give you some instructions
EDIT
oh yeah, the above refers to it still being on the bike
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Thanks Jonesy I will give that a try. I found a manual that is especially for the drive assembly.
http://www.ringler.us/xs1100/ShaftDriveManual.pdf
My best understanding is that I would have to remove circlip number 14 in thier explosion (chapter 6) or number 13 in the one above Jeff suplied. Hopefully I have misread or misinterpeted this and you are right. I will give it a go.
Hmm hang on I just explained it to Danica and I see that what you thought was a (Edit) circlip is actually a thrust shim so it looks like I do need to do a full dismantle.
Bugger I might get the silastic out for now until the full rebuild ?????
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Brett, before doing too much open heart surgery, check to see if a wasp or hornet hasn't built a nest in the breather hose, which will make the housing pressurise and leak as the oil expands when it heats up if it can't vent. Check by removing the filler plug, then stick an air line in it (or just blow through a piece of tubing if you don't have a compressor yet). You should hear air escaping from the breather hose.
If it's clear, forget I said anything.
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Thanks errol I will check in the morning, Fingers crossed :'(
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Brett if thats a shim and not a circlip that makes it even easier. I still reckon you can do without removing unit from the bike......but I'm only going off drawing not the real thing
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So you are thinking that nut comes off then the bearings shim cup all comes off. I will have a look tomorrow.
Thanks
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Looking behind the cap cover we see this.
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg202.imageshack.us%2Fimg202%2F9021%2Fnutzv.jpg&hash=71be913ef8ad9bac0bdc46452a390b003fbf1497)
It looks like we need to knock the lip of the nut out of the key way and then undo the nut. The manual takes this out as a complete unit and then undo the nut out of the middle gear housing. It also puts it back on out of the housing.
My only fear doing it this way (without full dismantle) is that it puts undue strain on the gears that the shaft connects to. have no idea if this is a problem and I believe it is only 80 pounds of toque so that does not seem like alot to cause any damage.
Heading down to buy a socket to fit and or a new shifter as mine did not find it's way back into my bag the other day at work.
If no one sends any alarms my way before i get back i will undo that Nut and see what happens ;)
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That don't seem to work. Took the nut off and the bearing was still not keen to come out. tried to take the cup/spacer out. It will swivel but can't get it to move out any. The manual uses a hammer on the pinion shaft from behind to remove these. I might leave it leaking for now until the full strip down.
I noticed that there was three shims #8 and two shims #6. It seemed that the tension on the nut was quite low. When I went to re-tighten the nut to 80 foot pound I could not get it and found that the shaft seemed to spin. (not the back wheel as that was being held) It was tighter than it was when i took it off so I left it at that. Makes me wonder if it has been mucked with before and maybe the less pressure is why it leaks from that #6 shim ??
Took it for a ride and all seems well.
Time for a rest before night shift chat later :D
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sounds like you had a good go at it any way Brett, looks like its had some moisture in there at some stage too.
Eddy still might be able to suss out if theres a way of doing it while still on the bike
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Eddy sent some pics by email. Some how it looked different ???
It also had two o rings, this Shyte makes you feel dumb some times
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just one thing while you in there messing around,,,,,they,re a 90degree bevel drive, which require backlash tolerances,,,, they shouldn,t be pulled down to far by the uninitiated
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Hey Brett
I stripped down the middle gear drive I got from the Bourke auction.....cant help myself.
Anyway It looks like its an off the bike job to fix your leak
The O ring #4 is definitely the culprit.
In your close up pic of the hex nut, was there any shims? #8 in the exploded drawing.
Someone has definitely been meddling in there before you got this bike and most likely re-assembled with the original O ring and damaged it on re-assembly
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jat,
before taking the nut off the shaft,
grab a centre punch and mark both the shaft and nut
so when retightening u can line the nut back up again
to the right torque, this can also be done when messing around
with the final drive.
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No It was as is in the pic. So do you think I can replace it or should I take it to a gear specialist?
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jonesy,s round the corner and is competent in that field Brett
nut it out with him, order some bits,,,, jobs done 8)
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to stop the oil scrape the old stuff off and smear on a new layer of silicon under the lid, the shims set the cogs, non-friction fit bearing and shaft you can shift and lock, the side-thrust bearing has separate cage and loose ball bearings that fall everywhere, to align the teeth you need a degree in algebra for that hahah
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Hey Brett,
First do what PG suggests, clean old silastic off and give it another treatment, If theres no gasket left go to your auto shop and make a new one, I think the cornflakes pack is too absorbent and will eventually just soak through.
If that don't stop it you'll have to take the middle drive off the bike. At the other end of the shaft in your nut photo is a circlip that has to come off so you can withdraw the nut, bearing shaft (items 3 thru to 9) etc out without undoing the nut from the side your photo is taken from. once you do that you can replace the O ring #4. This can be done without upsetting any of the gear set up and no algebra degree required. As long as you put it back together with all the original shims in the same place.
I'll get some photos up later to help explain myself. oh yeah...you'll have to make the O ring as I just learnt from my local yam dealer they are no longer available. A bit of O ring cord from your engineering/bearing supplier and some super glue and your done.
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Heres a pic to maybe give you the jist of what I'm talking about
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg849.imageshack.us%2Fimg849%2F7809%2Fmiddledrive.jpg&hash=117d9762ba663b66e94c2d828501ca4f04b7f99a)
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if Bretts can get it apart as in Jonesy's pic Blue or black silastic on the "o " ring and then reassemble and re tension. and as Pete says always mark everthing so when you re tension you know you are close.. 8)
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Thanks Guys flat out at the moment, I will have a look as soon as I get some time.
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Hey Brett
I bought a meter of the O ring cord the other day, let me know when youre going to do the deed and I'll post you over a pre-fab O ring. O ring groove depth measured 2.4 - 2.5 mm. I bought 2.62mm In hindsight 3mm maybe ok too but confident the stuff i got will be ok
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Probably a tad late here, but Speed and Sport - CLICK (http://216.168.60.165/speedandsportinc/Index.tpl) - have 27 of the o-rings #4 in stock atm.
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi950.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fad349%2FEveready1100%2FMisc%2520Pics%2FScreenHunter_349May242145_zps074ce9f8.jpg&hash=73670f57484f3eeb0a9266c06cff18154208352e) (http://s950.photobucket.com/user/Eveready1100/media/Misc%20Pics/ScreenHunter_349May242145_zps074ce9f8.jpg.html)
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end of the day a new o-ring won't do jack if it's leaking from the cover, there's oil channels feeding all through the unit, little chance there's anything wrong with the o-ring, only the dumbest clumsiest most-clueless previous-owner gorilla could f-up the o-ring on re-assembly , no point dismantling the unit for no reason, a dismantled unit is bad news coz you break the original lash/backlash setting and it's just guesswork to get it back, it's precise stuff even a smidgeon out the paired bevel cogs will chew themselves to a chipped mess, SEAL THE COVER then test before stripping anything
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end of the day a new o-ring won't do jack if it's leaking from the cover,thats true, but if re silasticing or gasketing as per your earlier suggestion doesnt stop the leak the logical next step is the o ring there's oil channels feeding all through the unit, little chance there's anything wrong with the o-ring, only the dumbest clumsiest most-clueless previous-owner gorilla could f-up the o-ring on re-assembly , no point dismantling the unit for no reason,they're out there and judging by the pic of the rusty nut I'd say ones already been there before Brett got it a dismantled unit is bad news coz you break the original lash/backlash setting and it's just guesswork to get it back, the 2 o rings can be done without up setting backlash etc if you operate cleanly and dont mix up the original shims which is pretty hard to do as they can only go back where they came from due to shape and bolt holes in the shims themselves it's precise stuff even a smidgeon out the paired bevel cogs will chew themselves to a chipped mess, SEAL THE COVER then test before stripping anything Yep, agree, as mentioned and referenced to what you said in an earlier post
Then again, Brett might say F the hassle I'll just keep the oil topped up and the leak wiped clean.
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then again,Brett might say F the hassle I,ll just keep the oil topped up and the leak wiped clean
he has one other option open to him, ??? he could always call on the help of a xsive brother that deals with this type of thing with his work,,,,,seems like a good idea