XS1100 AUSTRALIA
XS1100 Topics => Modifications => Topic started by: AussiXS11G on December 22, 2011, 11:22:10 PM
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well now - what have we here?
BS36's with manual choke and vac advance line....
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ok,, spill em,, :o
where from, how much
love the position of the idle adjust screw,, 8)
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well Christian tracked them down for me . . . i modded the choke and vacuun advance line off my old set of Bs34's 8)
replaced the o rings, bolts. gaskets etc. using my jets and hot to trot. . . .
the trickiest bit was drilling the 0.78mm hole to enter the airway at the right place. . . .
they slip straight in . . still using the airbox . . . awsome
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So what are they off Bryan? they look the same as mine!
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apparently .....FJ1100, 1200, XJR1200, 1300
kits, parts etc from here...
http://www.rpmracingca.com/index.asp
nice eh....
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this was the most challenging part of the operation for me - the tiny hole at the bottom of the 5mm dia hole
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Use the Boyer and you don't need the vac advance unit so no need to drill the carbs.
BUT a job well done
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the vac-unit is a non-issue, you can run the vac-advance with any type/make/model of carb from a manifold spigot. Connecting vacuum from a hole to the butterfly isn't necessary at all because it makes zero difference to the ride
with a simple manifold connection the engine purrs smoothly at idle with a advance of around 15 - 20 deg. You also get extra advance when the throttle's shut on deceleration/over-run at high revs.
As soon as the throttle is touched, the vac advance runs exactly how it always runs no matter what carbs you have. The stock damper hole is only a tiny 0.5mm diameter, a easily-made restrictor is a plug of araldite with a 0.5mm hole drilled thru jammed inside the vac hose
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all true pg....but lets not get into a form vs function debate or we will be wondering why we are all still riding dinosaurs..... ;D
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HERE HERE Bryan, ok, thats what i'v been looking for, didn't know their number tho, thanks, merry xsmass everybody.
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??? ??? ??? Isn't number 1 on the left ??? ??? ???
You did a great job cleaning them up matey.
May have to send you mine ;D ;D
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by all means Xtian....not a worry... ;D
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tell me, and tell me true.....
do you guys use fuel filters?
I went to buy new ones today and one local m/c w/shop owner told me in a nasal voice..
"don't use em mate, so don't stock em"
???
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Run the bike for a while and when you drain the carbs, if there is crap in there then you need filters.
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todays job . . . make new throttle cable to suit XJ throttle block and BS36 carbs. . .
I have the parts. and the solder. flux etc watched a youtube vid for instructions. . .
this is a first for me . . looks like a snack :)
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yeh - turns out that was a snack - I just hope I made it with enough length for a little slack...
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I will find out on Monday tomorrow - first run and balance etc
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aww dunno, that angle coming out of the top looks a touch sharp, might be able to bend the bracket an extra degree or two to help, will end up cutting into the outer and slowing the decel response maybe,
some thing to keep an eye on, hows it feel to be doing your own work now
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bryan, have u had a chance to ride it yet?
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Pete
I have balanced but not ridden yet......was waiting for tank to be painted but intend to fit as is
and have a run around the block this weekend
:D
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I would re-route that cable too as Steptoe said "too tight"
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Ok then.....
after hijacking Bert's thread in Workshop here
http://xs1100.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=1594.0
I have been to Bourke and back with the BS36 carbs fitted and have the following to report.
On receipt of the BS36 set (off an XJR 1200) I stripped and cleaned same, replaced all gaskets, O rings etc. I replaced the Main Jet (95) and Pilot Jet (40) with the Jets from my old BS34's (140 Main and 45 Pilot) All others remain stock for the XJR1200 units.
I set the fuel levels at ~5mm after frelling around with float heights - first time I have set fuel levels as opposed to float heights (I must have been lucky with my old BS34's that all the floats displaced the same volume of fuel)
So - the machine pulled well down low but was not keen to rev over 7k revs as discussed in Berts thread above.
After making a great contact at CONCOURS in Fred from Pro Cycle Dyno at Slacks Creek I bit the bullet and took my machine down to him on Monday last for sorting once and for all.
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The optimal air/fuel ratio (AFR) is around 14.7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-fuel_ratio)
A lower ratio is richer and higher is leaner.
The red lines and text on the graph above is with my 140 Main Jets - at around 7k revs my AFR approached 17 - too lean to ignite and so my mis-firing (rather like a rev limiter)
Fred's first guess at increasing the Main Jet by 4 sizes to 160 proved close to perfect as the blue lines and text on the above graph show.
On Fred's advice I have dropped the needles to the second top groove.
He commented on how strongly my engine pulls at low revs and midrange and that the HP and Torque figures are a credit to the engineering of my engine.
So the upshot is this
BS34 to BS36 = more air = more fuel = bigger Mains......the +4 sizes being a rule of thumb according to the expert.
I will be away on the bike on the weekend and will be able to report on fuel economy next week.
Oh - and I have re-routed that throttle cable too.....
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Excellent work there Bryan.
Well done mate, may be an answer for me BUT your bike is like it's owner....
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Hope you are not thinking "excessive" Xtian...... :D
I am wondering how much HP I would have at the wheel with a chain drive now.......
But first.....electronic ignition ;)
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I'm betting you're a happy little traveller now, Bryan.
So let's see, first run on the dyno at the Concours = 107hp
the second run a year or two later = 103hp. We all put the loss down to general wear on the motor, valves not seating quite as well etc.
Now, from what I can make out on the graph, you're back at the 107hp mark, so the bigger carbs jetted properly have given back the horsepower lost in time. Have you made any other changes to the motor between the dyno runs?? It makes you wonder how much hp the freshly built motor in the first run might have achieved if it had these (sorted) carbys on back then??
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howzat....
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Both hotties
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Much better thank you Baldy
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motorcycle, 1, :-*,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,back tyre zilch,, ::)
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howzat....
mines got the keihin 36mm CV carbs off a ZRX1200, the barrels and slides are sleek and streamlined inside, they were jetted so lean with #95 main jets as standard, shows how stifled some stock ZRX1200's are. For the 8-valve aircooled XS11(1196cc) and with a ported cylinder head 4-1 k&n filter dynacoils etc... I re-jetted the 36mm keihin carbs to up around #140 size( that's a lot of sizes) and she revs to redline in a blink with a ton of torque everywhere and the fuel delivery is faultless and delicously smooth! A good set of carbs changes the whole ride and feel of the engine. With chaindrive and light wheels/discs so weighs quite a lot less than normal means good milage(for a thirsty XS11) at about 14 - 15 kms per litre average unless you're thrashing it constant, and if trying hard will get up to 18kms per litre on a 100kph cruise.
I found with the 78' XS11 34mm (137.5 main jet) carbs with hot-rod engine, they won't perform if you try to upsize any more than 2 or 3 sizes main jet maximum. Basically bugger-all happens as far as extra stomp goes. Anything over 142.5 is a backward step It'll just drink fuel like crazy and every increase up in size equals lower and lower top speed. They can't flow enough air to dilute the extra fuel. The later XS11 34mm carbs with skimpy 110 - 125 main jets must be pretty bloody stifling though
STANDARD
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PORTED
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Well now........I've been a bit quiet on here for the last week and a bit.....I came home from dynoing my machine feeling pretty frelling smug.....107hp n all.....
One of the breathers from the float bowls into the airbox was broken (at the airbox) so I rang around and asked what blokes did with them when pod filters are used in lieu of the airbox... "just run them up under the seat and put a small filter on them so nothing gets in" was the general advice.
So I modded the airbox thus and re-assembled the machine ready for last weekends ride.
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Suffice it to say that the machine started, idled and ran well up to abt 5000 revs then misfired v badly.
After considering that it was spark and unrelated to the breathers, testing coils, checking all connections, swapping out the TCI unit, the regulator etc, etc a colleague suggested that I return the machine to the state it was after dyno tuning.
So from my "parts bike" I took the airbox, removed the crankcase breather circuit and fitted same, took the bike around the block and hey presto - problem solved.
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To say that I am amazed is an understatement - my amazement is bordering on stupefacation......
The machine was simply drowning in fuel - the air/fuel mix so rich that it would not burn - completely sooting the plugs.
I suspect that if the machine had been tuned with the breathers not into the airbox all would have been well.
I am disappointed I didn't get to take the XS away last weekend but the KTM was AWSOME....
BTW - KIwi....nice write-up about the Kwaka carbs - I ran 140 mains in my BS34 XS11 carbs to great effect (with the state of tune of my lump)
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it,s amost always the simple things, great news,
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OK - first tank of fuel since re-jetting......
around town and highway (down to the Gold Coast n back -110km/h runs)
305km from full to reserve!!!!
:D ;D
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gotta be happy with that, pert near the same as bog stock out of the factory with the added advantage of about 20% + more horses
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very happy indeed.....
the best I got out of the BS34's was abt 250ish
I wonder how it will do at an average higher speed ....if you know what I mean ;)
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Gee, Bryan. I guess you'll just have to go out and ride it at a higher average speed to find out then, eh?? Any excuse for a fang, mate. (https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi950.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fad349%2FEveready1100%2FMisc%2520Pics%2Fsmiley-cool14.gif&hash=d7c439b4d0ab56c4b888586aa0690b653b3bc3fb)
How about a series of runs done at various speeds so you could do up a graph to display the various results. Of course all testing would be done in a safe and controlled environment like Morgan park (fun!) or Willowbank (handy but a bit boring) (https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi950.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fad349%2FEveready1100%2FMisc%2520Pics%2Frofl.gif&hash=68294f840ebae5dee40f1a227b65c81651e69831)(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi950.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fad349%2FEveready1100%2FMisc%2520Pics%2Frofl.gif&hash=68294f840ebae5dee40f1a227b65c81651e69831)(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi950.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fad349%2FEveready1100%2FMisc%2520Pics%2Frofl.gif&hash=68294f840ebae5dee40f1a227b65c81651e69831)(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi950.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fad349%2FEveready1100%2FMisc%2520Pics%2Frofl.gif&hash=68294f840ebae5dee40f1a227b65c81651e69831)
I am really impressed by your current figures though. You've got it really dialled in now. (https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi950.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fad349%2FEveready1100%2FMisc%2520Pics%2Fcool.gif&hash=36a8ae296865ed2428f01bd98ae8905cee51012a)
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XSellent work Bryan, looks like I may have to do the same when I am back on the road
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Geez Errol.....I don't think a graph is going to happen.
as you say though, any excuse for a fang....
Having ridden the machine now, I can't believe that I thought it was going well on the ride to Bourke and back in May. :(
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great stuff bryan,
so what settings did u end up with
float heights/jets etc....
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the latest on the BS36 carbs on my machine.....
14.5km/litre for the whole 1245km trip Brisbane to Bellingen and back -
see more about that here
http://xs1100.com.au/forum/index.php?topic=1703.msg10680#new
16.0km/litre for the transport stage between home and Casino on Friday
12.71km/litre for the Gwyder Hwy between Grafton and Glen Innes (yes - I was fairly up it)
yep - I am happy ;D
Main Jets 160
Pilot 45
Pilot Air Jet 135
Needle in centre
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I,v just fitted a set of bs36 carbs off an fj 1200, carbs came with 104 mains 42 pilots, runs very good but has a flat spot just above idle, by ear and color tune idle doesn,t come good till the mixture screws are about 4 turns out, replaced mains with 110 and pilots 42.5 still doesn;t run any better at idle, screws still 4 turns out at least before idle settles down, float levels set at 5mm, flat spot goes away with a very small amount of choke, any ideas on where to go now would be appreciated thanks.
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go 45 pilot jet and/or bump the slide needles up one notch(half a mm)
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Thanks will try and chase up some jets and give it a go,
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swapped out my plugs for the first time since Nov 2012....
1 to 4, L to R
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all looks good to me - still running great ;D
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Gotta be happy with that,, 8)
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hey bryan,
the plugs look good
tho 3 and 4 looks a little lean,
u want the black soot to cover the base ring evenly like in the 1st plug,
unless the plug was wiped before u took the pic,
open up the mixture screws a little more on 3 than 4.
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hello Pete
They weren't wiped - but they are all equally sooted - the soot does not form a full ring tho -
I suspect had the plugs been dialled this would be more evident
should the sooting be continuous around the base or is it a feature of the exhaust side of the cylinder do you reckon?
B
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hey bryan,
yeah u want a nice complete even soot ring (to heavy and ur running rich)
like in the pic of the 1st plug, otherswise ur running lean,
just screw out the mixture screws a little on 3 and 4 and u should be sweet to go,
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well now - see what I found.....
this from August 1997
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi578.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss224%2Faussixs11G%2FModifications%2FBryansXS11Dyno19970816A.jpg&hash=544d9125cef59b54acab2cf3afbaf5ac669cf546) (http://s578.photobucket.com/user/aussixs11G/media/Modifications/BryansXS11Dyno19970816A.jpg.html)
when the bike looked like this - was basically bog standard with over 100k kms
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi578.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss224%2Faussixs11G%2FModifications%2FIMG_0018.jpg&hash=450ecc719b6d24112545ca7034fc2a70e32daae3) (http://s578.photobucket.com/user/aussixs11G/media/Modifications/IMG_0018.jpg.html)
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hey bryan,
did you sort out the lean running?
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I believe so Pete
I have had the carbs off and on a few times since we last forumed.....
While the jets/needles are the same I have fiddled with float heights, needle positions,
fitted iridium plugs and colortuned......
having said all that, I will pull the plugs tomorrow and report back......
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no worries bryan,
just a hint don't go running the float levels lean,
that'l start causing all sorts of problems, holes in piston is just one of them.
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Just been reading back thru the thread about bs 36 carbs and read where Brian had an over fueling problem that was fixed by putting the bowl breather pipes back on to the air box. Well i've just discovered the same thing, I had fitted a set of early carbs out of the us, all in spec with the book as far as jets and needles float height and everything, bike ran very well while on the stand, ballanced the carbs, tuned it, SWEET, took off down the road and it just refused to run over 4500 revs, just seemed to 8 stroke like too much fuel, so out came the 137.5 mains and in went 125's much better, but not rite, so thought i'd tidy up a few things while i tried to figure what to do next, thought i'd put some pipes from the bowl breathers to the air box just to keep the crap out, and tidied up my fuel lines a bit, went for ride and like Brian said, Hey Presto!!!went like a rocket, so i thought, put the 137.5's back in, Magic!! i've never had those breather pipes hooked up before as i'v had late carbs that vent thru the carb throut, so now i'm going to try the Bs36's with bigger jets and the breather hooked up and see what happens..
By the way Brian, do the BS36 carbs have to have the little rubber plugs in the pilot jet holes? mine never had any but looking at a tutorial it shows them and it also says the float height should be 22.4.. what do you think??
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yes Makzy
the plugs came with the kits but I have lost a couple of them already....
that breather thing did my head in for a few days there 4 sure...
I set fuel level rather than float height at between 4.5mm and 5.5mm below float chamber line...
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Yeah did mine in too, i'll have to make some plugs with nipples to take a hose to measure fuel levels, thanks...
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This is the first set of carbs that I have used fuel levels rather than float heights.....I set float heights
to begin with but found that I was getting uneven fueling...... No 2 son (and Xtian, Steptoe and others)
all pointed out the error of my ways.....
It would appear that the brass floats of the BS34's all had the same volume and weight while
the plastic floats of the BS36's do not.....
Do your BS36's bowls not allow for checking fuel levels?
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Sorry yes they do Brian, was getting confused with the early carbs, Here's something else, the bowles from the later 34's won't fit the early carbs, the tube for the choke fuel pickup is about 2mm off..