XS1100 AUSTRALIA
XS1100 Topics => Modifications => Topic started by: Jonesy on May 03, 2011, 06:21:07 PM
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After meeting PeteJW recently, we had a brief discussion on taking off the oil cooler. So now I'm just wondering if anyone out there has actually done this. and what mods had to be made?
After all it was the only bike I know of from that era that ran one and was probably overkill since the 11 donk has all the air cooling fins and simillar oil capacity to many other era bikes.
In an emergency for example if you wrote off the heat exchanger maybe you could use the existing fittings that bolt on above the filter housing and run a short hose between the 2 ?
Jonesy
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it's only pressure that pushes the oil up to it,, make a small hose round the front of the filter housing, or behind it,, can't see it being an issue,, like you say plenty of other bikes don't have them,, my GSX 11 didn't,, and ran fine in stifling QLD out back heat
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Hey Geoff how ya goin'
Yeah that short hose was what I was thinking too, my approach was for tidying up and minimalist look as you've seen from past mods i did.
Those standard imitation braided hoses are real dirt collectors and look shpit in my opinion. Like you give the bike a good clean up and then hoses stand out like the proverbial
Jonesy.
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just went and had a close look at mine,, there is enough steel piping in place already to reach,,
if you were to take the engine pipes off, find someone with a small pipe bender, you might be able to bend in situ, then take off, with a joiner sized up ready to put in place, mark, dis-assemble and braze
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Yep easy peasy
you could get a 1/2" pipe bender down the local hardware shop, copper pipe would handle the job easy but stainless would look better
If you didnt have the hardware or know how yourself your local plumber or engineering shop could do the bending and brazing in no time at all
just gotta be mindful to get your angles right so your fittings meet up with the mounting surfaces just right
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Do not use copper as it is work hardening,no body wants a fractured oil line in the middle of nowhere,oneday i will tell you the story that was set in 1977 about a bloke who made a lower front brake line for a Kawasaki z1a 900 out of copper i got from Melbourne to Bathurst without a problem but the trip back to Melbourne with a pillion passenger was done with no front brakes!!
Regards Dale
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Hey Dale,
Good tip with the work hardening......maybe it was the application?
Did the kwaka 9's have rigid lower brake lines or was that just your's?
Jonesy.
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Hey Jonesy,
let us know how you go will you please as I'd be interested in the mod myself.
This would finaly allow me to buy and fit the MAC system with the turnout pipes for my '78E.
They don't make them for XS models that have the oil cooler fitted.
As an aside guys, if you are ever going to buy an exaust system on line make sure you let them know if you have an oil cooler. Most aftermarket producers don't make them to fit oil cooled models.
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Hey Jonesy,
let us know how you go will you please as I'd be interested in the mod myself.
This would finaly allow me to buy and fit the MAC system with the turnout pipes for my '78E.
They don't make them for XS models that have the oil cooler fitted.
As an aside guys, if you are ever going to buy an exaust system on line make sure you let them know if you have an oil cooler. Most aftermarket producers don't make them to fit oil cooled models.
hi fred,
ive got the brand new mac system with turn outs i bought from the states
new a cpl of years ago, i bought it off ebay after having a few to many drinks lol
my bikes got the oil cooler and have never fitted it, if ur interested let me know,
only problem one of the mufflers at the end has the chrome peeling away from it
not to much but could possibly get worse with use, i can take pics if ur interested.
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Hey Pete, was that exhaust made for your RH or would it fit the standard 79mod ? As I was thinking about buying a set for myself, but I didn't realise the "Oil Cooler" issue.
Cheers: Phil
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hey phil,
it wasnt made for the rh,
not sure what model specifically it was made for
but they do state its not for models with an oil cooler.
heres a link to the ebay site
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Yamaha-XS1100-4-2-Chrome-MAC-exhaust-system-XJ1100-tur-/170622210402?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27b9e05162
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Thanks for the offer Pete but lets wait and see how successful the oil cooler bypass is and looks.
PM me with what you want for the pipes anyway mate.
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Hey Fred,
what part of the oil cooler and lines restrict you from fitting those MAC pipes
If anyone has a donor set of hoses with the filter end fittings intact I'll gladly do the mod ;D
and return to the donor or even make up a jig and knock out a few for interested members
Jonesy.
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Hey guys, wouldn't it be easier just to remove the filter housing and ditch the oil filter line adapter which is an extra piece between the filter housing and the oil pan? You'd just have to get the shorter oil filter housing bolt (US spec) and put it directly onto the sump.
This way, you'd get rid of all the unwanted pipe fittings and tidy up the whole area.
Personally, I'm going to keep mine as it's that bit of extra insurance for those really extra hot days on the road.
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Yep, good call,
could be a 6 of one and 1/2 a dozen of the other type siuation.
Eg: modify what you've got or go out and source some new bits.
Theres a drawback with the first option...... if you've modified your own original lines(no donor) theres no turning back.
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here's a couple : CLICK (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/YAMAHA-XS750-XS850-XS1100-XVZ12-OIL-FILTER-BOLT-/190529635768?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c5c7385b8)
Click (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NOS-Yamaha-Oil-Filter-Bypass-Bolt-VMX12-XS1100-XVZ1300-/220239102501?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3347460225)
Clicky (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/YAMAHA-XS750-XS850-XS1100-XVZ12-OIL-FILTER-BOLT-/190529653139?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c5c73c993)
Or you could just lob into your local Yam dealer and get a bolt to suit any XS 750 - 850 without the oil cooler
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Hey guys, wouldn't it be easier just to remove the filter housing and ditch the oil filter line adapter which is an extra piece between the filter housing and the oil pan? You'd just have to get the shorter oil filter housing bolt (US spec) and put it directly onto the sump.
I had a bit of a think about which would be the better option. One major benefit of removing the adapter would be that it'd give you a much straighter shot (with a socket) at getting to the oil drain plug in the sump instead of having to use a universal joint to get around the filter housing.
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I hadn't even thought of the section removal as an option,,, didn't realize it was one
what does the little releif valve in that section do tho,, is that only associated with that section,, and the oil cooler, or does it affect the whole motor
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Mate, that valve is only to stop the oil in the cooler from draining back into the sump when you switch the motor off, so it's got some in the lines for when you start up again.
Remember, the oil cooler was an add-on that they fitted to the bikes for our market and plenty of guys over in the states are retro fitting oil coolers to their bikes using similar adapters and all they have to do to fit them is get the longer filter housing bolt to suit the assembly.
Shouldn't need any other mods at all.
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that'll be the easiest, most unmessiest :o solution for you then jonesy
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I reckon that the bikes with oil coolers have still got the normal size oil filter bolt. It's got an extension screwed onto the end of it so it looks longer. here's the extension piece (No. 7 below)
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.benefiscal.co.uk%2Fimages%2FParts%2F90401-20053-00+Oil+Cooler+Adapter+Bolt.jpg&hash=83fd72d5de7cb444887b50a3d56c1c365eb65e90) (http://www.benefiscal.co.uk/partinfo.php?myid=41979)
So, no new parts needed, you'd just need to remove all the numbered parts in this pic...
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.benefiscal.co.uk%2Ffiche%2FXS1100RH%2Foilcooler.gif&hash=31fece9de90e7af78400b86f2e0b5e6724907185)
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They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Well, those say it all!
Thanks Brian for clarifying that for us. Now the options are clear.
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so like we were saying Ev, if there is a hic-cup with the cooler,, { a stone going thru it or such}
take the bottom assy off ,, take the extension bolt and the filter hose block off the motor and do it back up again
that there is some pretty cluey thinking from our 30 yr ago engineers
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That's it, in a nutshell, Steps.
Only snag is having enough oil with you at the time to do a refill after removing the leaky bits.
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Goiing through the haynes book yesterday and studying the A3 size liftout for routine checks and adjustments I noticed the Bike drawing used on the liftout isnt fitted with a cooler.
I'm sourcing the various parts now for a first service in who knows how long and I'm gunna take the plunge and remove the cooler and adapter block.
Coming into NSW central tablelands winter I'm sure it'll be ok. -4 deg last night
Jonesy
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it will be fair bet the manual uses an o/s model then
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Gee, here I was about to go and see Mr Enzed to get a new LH pipe made for my cooler and everyone else is taking their coolers off!
The original LH pipe on my bike obviously failed or was damaged at some point and has been replaced by a length of standard rubber hose with a couple of hose clamps at each end.
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Seasonally and of course dependant on where and in what country you live in "Air Cooled" engines wlil operate/perform differently throughout the year.Removing the oil cooler should be thought out carefully .Longevity of our ageing motors is what we all seek .Permanent removal of our coolers to fit an aftermarket exhaust? I for one would rather keep the cooler and look for, or have one made that fits with the cooler in place.If you live in a cooler climate.......maybe just cover up the cooler with a thin galvanized cover that is easily removable on those warmer days or if you get caught in city traffic or are in the mood to race the engine on a day run .Look at the vicosity of oil your using and change that for summer and winter if starting and short runs are your issue .Stress is also put on a motor if it is run too cold with too thick a viscosity of oil .I don t need to waffle on about what overheating of any engine will do to it.
Just some food for thought as to why you would want to do this and what benefits you expect to gain .Does it put you at risk to suffer later on due to this expected gain? (Leaking oil/engine gaskets/seals ,tolerances within the motor?)
Aside from the heat losses from the cooling fins on the barrels , the oil cooler is a worthwhile aid in this as well.
Everyones situation is different but i for one will be keeping mine in place. The positives outweigh the negatives in my opinion.
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G,day Jeff,
I have considered many of the things you mentioned, particularly clearances. As we all know todays bikes with liquid cooling run much tighter tolerances than the machines from the XS era.
If you consider that parts of the US are equal or more extreme in summer temps than here and yamaha released the XS in that country without the cooler (on some models) I reckon the risk of engine damage is minimal.
The modification is definitely not permanent as it can all be bolted straight back on.
My day job is condition monitoring of industrial equipment which gives me access to some appropriate bits of gear like infra red temp guns and oil analysi labs.
So I'm thinking I'll do a before and after temp survey on the filter housing, sump pan and the oil line up to the head at the back of the motor. I'll try as best as possible to do the same run at the same ambient temp and post the results here.
Jonesy.
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Some more ....."for" and "against comments by others............
http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26061
Bio of an overseas owner who felt the need to fit one...
http://www.knez.org/photos/photoindex.php?callerDir=/vehicles&dir=/vehicles/images/xs1100/oil cooler and fork brace........
On Web page select.... xs1100....then mods.......then photos of oil radiator.
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Hey Jeff,
There seems to be a strong argument against the cooler by the US guys.
I'm confident it'll be ok
Jonesy.
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I just finished a cover to cover search through both of these
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi950.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fad349%2FEveready1100%2FClymermanualresized.jpg&hash=be1d47ba6c09e28bded225afe932456918d20c6d)
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi950.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fad349%2FEveready1100%2Fcycleservemanual.jpg&hash=71f73367801c9e04ad75f3d2d8c86695916adc7a)
and can't get over the fact that there's no photos or diagrams to cover the oil cooler and adapter like in Brians post.
The Cycleserv was printed in Australia in 78 so there's no reason why it didn't rate mentioning as it covers the bike that was marketed here.
The Clymer was printed in the US so it's probably understandable why it isn't covered, though there is a one paragraph description of the cooler ( not the adapter housing) in the supplement at the back of the manual.
Which reopens another riddle about my bike which is a 3H3 Special (Yank market according to all the numbers) and it's got an oil cooler fitted????
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The picture Brian showed comes from or is reproduced in the Haynes manual
Jonesy
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Which reopens another riddle about my bike which is a 3H3 Special (Yank market according to all the numbers) and it's got an oil cooler fitted?
maybe so, but it's sold in Aus so the cooler is added, factory------------------------------maybe :-\
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Yeah steptoe
I'd assume it'd be an aussie compliance/design thing.......maybe???
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but it's sold in Aus so the cooler is added, factory------------------------------maybe
But..........................mine's an import!
It came in in 2001 from god knows where?
Besides, no 1100 Specials were sold here in OZ.
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Well I've taken the plunge and removed the adaptor block where the hoses attach under the motor and fitted the filter housing back up.......sorta like it was meant to be even those little lugs on the filter housing line up with notches on the engine casing to hold it in the right position.
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg148.imageshack.us%2Fimg148%2F9615%2F20110522006.jpg&hash=2af9271cdec7b041b48386bbe1d06e607ae88246)
The cooler is coming off tomorrow, I just wanted to see how the filter fitted up before I went ahead
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg31.imageshack.us%2Fimg31%2F586%2F20110522001.jpg&hash=b673ceefa29cedf464890d7f62bdc46d5f3da7b8)
and a closer up shot
(https://xs1100.com.au/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg852.imageshack.us%2Fimg852%2F5162%2F20110522002.jpg&hash=f2b110ceae48f22e7dc12db2ea3d9ce3971f984f)
and the removed bits... well some of em
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Just like it was originally meant to be. Let us know of the results, mate.
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One unforseen advantage.....that front cap screw on the valve cover is easy as to get to now.
spose it dont mean jack if the motor cooks ay......trust me it'll be all good ;D
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Everready,
I read somewhere that the cycleserv manual was a reprint of the original Yamaha manual and that after they stopped producing XS's that Cycleserv got the rights to print them. That would explain the lack of any specific Aussie content.
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The oil cooler is off.....only early days but so far so good.
It spent a good amount of time stationery in the shed while idling and revving while I synched the carbs and checked the timing etc......thats probably a bigger test than riding on a summer day......no airflow over the motor.
Then I went for a ride and come back and let it idle for a bit more......no smoke off the motor like its maiden ride. oil is circulating properly......well the level drops in the site glass and returns when stopped anyway.
Jonesy.
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hey Jonesy
did you do any temp comparisons before and after oil cooler removal?
I have removed mine since early April and felt sorry for the poor thing this weekend just gone - it was frelling hot here in
SE Qld ....
B
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Bryan, if it's any help, or not, during our Haigslea Bike Museum ride in January coming back through Death valley via Esk heading to "the Tee" it was like riding through a blast furnace and my temp gauge peaked at around 135 degrees (nearly maxxed). I'm glad I had the cooler fitted that day!
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Yes Jonesy, did you end up getting those before n after temp numbers down?
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If somebody's got a temp gun we can do it at wellington, both my machines will be there and are in the same state of tune, bog standard with 4-2 exhausts. should be a reasonable comparison
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You really showing of your split personality!
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I'll throw mine in maybe the annomometer too
for exhaust and in take speed :P